HANSARD

Session Day 162 19

Assembly

HANSARD

Wednesday, September 27, 2023

Pages 6417 - 6500

The Honourable Frederick Blake Jr, Speaker

Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories

Members of the Legislative Assembly

Speaker

Hon. Frederick Blake Jr.

(Mackenzie Delta)

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hon. Diane Archie

(Inuvik Boot Lake)

Deputy Premier

Minister of Infrastructure

Minister responsible for the NWT Power

Corporation

Mr. Ronald Bonnetrouge

(Deh Cho)

Ms. Caitlin Cleveland

(Kam Lake)

Hon. Paulie Chinna

(Sahtu)

Minister responsible for Housing

Northwest Territories

Minister responsible for Homelessness

Minister responsible for the Public

Utilities Board

Minister responsible for the Workers'

Safety and Compensation

Commission

Hon. Caroline Cochrane

(Range Lake)

Premier

Minister of Executive and Indigenous

Affairs

Minister responsible for the COVID-19

Coordinating Secretariat

Mr. Richard Edjericon

(Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh)

Hon. Julie Green

(Yellowknife Centre)

Minister of Health and Social Services

Minister responsible for Persons with

Disabilities

Minister responsible for Seniors

Mr. Jackie Jacobson

(Nunakput)

Mr. Rylund Johnson

(Yellowknife North)

Ms. Frieda Martselos

(Thebacha)

Ms. Katrina Nokleby

(Great Slave)

Mr. Kevin O'Reilly

(Frame Lake)

Ms. Lesa Semmler

(Inuvik Twin Lakes)

Mr. Rocky Simpson

(Hay River South)

Hon. R.J. Simpson

(Hay River North)

Government House Leader

Minister of Education, Culture &

Employment

Minister of Justice

Hon. Shane Thompson

(Nahendah)

Minister of Municipal and Community

Affairs

Minister of Environment and Climate

Change

Minister responsible for Youth

Hon. Caroline Wawzonek

(Yellowknife South)

Minister of Finance

Minister of Industry, Tourism and

Investment, including responsibility

for the Business Development and

Investment Corporation

Minister responsible for the Status of

Women

Ms. Jane Weyallon

Armstrong

(Monfwi)

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Officers

Clerk of the Legislative Assembly

Mr. Glen Rutland

Deputy Clerks

Ms. Kim Wickens

Mr. Michael Ball

Ms. Jolene Saturnino

Committee Clerks

Ms. Amy Lizotte

Ms. Cynthia James

Ms. Katie Weaver

Law Clerks

Mr. Toby Kruger

Ms. Sandra Mackenzie

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Box 1320

Yellowknife, Northwest Territories

Tel: (867) 767-9010 Fax: (867) 920-4735 Toll-Free: 1-800-661-0784

www.ntassembly.ca

Published under the authority of the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories

TABLE OF CONTENTS

PRAYER ........................................................................................................................................................... 6417

MINISTERS’ STATEMENTS ............................................................................................................................ 6418

Sessional Statement (Cochrane) ........................................................................................................... 6418

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS ............................................................................................................................. 6422

Wildfire Evacuees (Bonnetrouge) .......................................................................................................... 6422

Thanking First Responders and Recognition of Fort Smith Residents (Martselos) ................................ 6422

Thanks to Wildfire Crews and Community Members who Protected Hay River (Rocky Simpson) ........ 6423

Evacuations and Government Support (O’Reilly) .................................................................................. 6424

Recognition of Passing of Nunakput Residents (Jacobson) .................................................................. 6424

Recognition of Essential Service Workers (Edjericon) ........................................................................... 6425

Climate Change and Emergency Response Planning (Nokleby) ........................................................... 6425

Northwest Territories Wildfire Policy (Weyallon Armstrong) .................................................................. 6426

Post-Evacuation Business Supports (Cleveland)................................................................................... 6427

Wildfire Evacuations (Johnson) ............................................................................................................. 6427

Eulogy for Adam Yeadon (Thompson) ................................................................................................... 6428

RECOGNITION OF VISITORS IN THE GALLERY .......................................................................................... 6429

ORAL QUESTIONS .......................................................................................................................................... 6429

RETURNS TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS ........................................................................................................... 6440

REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON THE REVIEW OF BILLS ........................................................................... 6445

REPORTS OF STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES ............................................................................. 6448

TABLING OF DOCUMENTS ............................................................................................................................ 6384

NOTICES OF MOTION ..................................................................................................................................... 6486

Motion 84-19(2) – Taxation of Vaping Products under Coordinated Vaping

Taxation Product Agreement ................................................................................................................. 6486

Motion 85-19(2) – Extended Adjournment of the House to October 3, 2023 ......................................... 6486

CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE OF BILLS AND OTHER MATTERS ........................... 6386

REPORT OF COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE .................................................................................................. 6498

ORDERS OF THE DAY .................................................................................................................................... 6499

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6417

YELLOWKNIFE, NORTHWEST TERRITORIES

Wednesday, September 27, 2023

Members Present

Hon. Diane Archie, Hon. Frederick Blake Jr., Mr. Bonnetrouge, Hon. Paulie Chinna, Ms. Cleveland, Hon. Caroline

Cochrane, Mr. Edjericon, Hon. Julie Green, Mr. Jacobson, Mr. Johnson, Ms. Martselos, Ms. Nokleby, Mr. O’Reilly,

Ms. Semmler, Hon. R.J. Simpson, Mr. Rocky Simpson, Hon. Shane Thompson, Hon. Caroline Wawzonek, Ms.

Weyallon Armstrong

The House met at 1:30 p.m.

Prayer

---Drum prayer

SPEAKER (Hon. Frederick Blake Jr.): Good

afternoon, colleagues. Please join me in

thanking the Yellowknives Dene First Nation

drummers for opening our sitting today.

---Applause

Colleagues, it was a long difficult summer.

Many residents were displaced for weeks.

Wildfires breached community boundaries.

People lost their homes and businesses.

Frontline responders worked for weeks fighting

back wildfires right on the doorstep of our

communities. I want to thank everyone who

worked to protect our territory this summer and

continue this important work as we meet here

today.

Natural disasters take a toll on all of us,

physically, mentally and emotionally. While the

wildfire season is not over, we are emerging

from the most critical stages. We must recover

from this natural disaster together. Do what

Northerners do best and help one another. Be

kind. Be patient. We still have to face the road

ahead.

Since our last sitting, two former members of

the Legislative Assembly, Robert Sayine and

Tommy Enuaraq, have passed. Mr. Sayine was

born in Fort Resolution and elected to the

Legislative Assembly in 1979. He worked

tirelessly for his community, serving as chief,

sub-chief and councillor, in addition to many

other roles. He is missed by his wife, children,

grandchildren and great grandchildren. Mr.

Enuaraq was elected to the Legislative

Assembly in 1995 for the people of Baffin

Central. A well-known community leader and

author, he is missed by his wife Elisapee and

six children.

I would also like to acknowledge the passing of

Bronwyn Watters, the Northwest Territories

Equal Pay Commissioner. Ms. Watters had an

extensive career with the GNWT and voluntary

service. The GNWT is fortunate to have been a

recipient of her exemplary work ethic and

dedication. She is dearly missed by her

husband and family.

I would also like to take this time to

acknowledge all the people who have passed

on from all constituencies across the NWT. Our

sympathy and condolences go out to those who

are grieving.

Members, this is the final sitting of the 19th

Assembly. As Members, we have navigated

COVID-19 global pandemic, self-isolation and

the impact this has had on our communities; we

have responded to economic downturns; we

have evacuated communities from flooding;

and, we continue to manage emergency

response to fires today. If there is anything we

have learned with this unprecedented last four

years as Members, it is how to get the job done

in the face of uncertainty.

Members, this is our last sitting to enact

legislation and pass the capital budget. I ask all

Members to stay focused on the task ahead of

us, to get our work done efficiently this week,

so we can all go back to support our

constituents across the NWT.

Colleagues, please join me in welcoming our

pages to the Chamber. It is an honour to share

this space with our youth.

---Applause

I would also like to welcome our interpreters

back to the Assembly and thank them for their

work. Our languages are vital to us as

Northerners. They tie us to our culture, to our

land, and to one another. During this sitting, I

am honoured that we will be able to provide

interpretation into the following languages:

Dene Suline Yatie, Inuvialuktun, Dene Kede,

Dene Zhatie, Tlicho Yatii; and French

Now, colleagues, it is my duty to advise the

House that I have received two messages from

the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories.

The first letter reads:

Page 6418 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

Dear Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise that I assent

to the following bills:

• Bill 97, An Act to Postpone Polling Day for

the 2023 General Election;

• Bill 99, Supplementary Appropriation Act

(Operations Expenditures), No.2,

2023-2024.

Yours truly, Margaret M. Thom, Commissioner.

The second letter reads:

Dear Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise that I

recommend to the Legislative Assembly of the

Northwest Territories the passage of

Supplementary Appropriation Act (Operations

Expenditures) No. 3, 2023-2024 during the

second session of the 19th Legislative

Assembly. Your truly, Margaret M. Thom.

Thank you, colleagues. Ministers' statements.

Madam Premier.

Ministers’ Statements

MINISTER’S STATEMENT 377-19(2):

SESSIONAL STATEMENT

HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Mr. Speaker, I

would like to welcome my colleagues back to

the House for the final session of the 19th

Legislative Assembly. Many of us have been

through at least one evacuation since we have

last met in person, and I am grateful you are all

safe.

For many residents of the NWT, you have

recently returned home from a very long

evacuation. Some residents have lost homes

and businesses. For students, this is yet

another disruption to their school year.

While it is tradition for the Premier to deliver a

final Sessional Statement to recap and

celebrate the accomplishments of their

government, today I want to start by celebrating

the residents and communities for their

unending resilience in the face of so much

adversity. To Hay River and the K'atlodeeche

First Nation in particular, I see the hardship

created by repeated evacuations due to both

floods and fires. Words cannot express my

admiration for you. This is the kind of resilience

that makes me proud to live in the Northwest

Territories.

Mr. Speaker, I want to acknowledge the tragic

passing of firefighter Adam Yeadon from Fort

Liard. Adam lost his life this summer while

protecting his community from wildfire. Adam

was passionate about his work as a firefighter,

and we will honour his sacrifice with a

scholarship in his name.

We often forget that first responders put

themselves at risk every day in the critical work

they do, and it is important to express our

gratitude for their dedication to this work. I am

very thankful to all first responders and the

firefighters who, like Adam, take pride in their

work and commit to it fully despite the risk.

Against the odds, we have demonstrated

resilience by working together through a series

of adversities. This is a testament to the

passion of all Members with whom I have had

the pleasure to serve over the last four years. I

want to thank everyone in this Chamber for the

countless hours they have spent supporting

and advocating for their constituents.

We have faced many challenges during the life

of this Legislative Assembly. On February 7th,

2020, I tabled the new mandate of the

Government of the Northwest Territories. Just

over a month later, the first wave of COVID-19

hit the territory. It is hard to believe such a

globally significant event now seems like a

distant memory, even after it has profoundly

shaped nearly every aspect of the Legislative

Assembly.

We faced unprecedented flooding for two years

in a row, which destroyed homes, cabins,

businesses, and other infrastructure in multiple

communities. These floods were followed a

year later by a catastrophic 2023 wildfire

season, in which over four million hectares of

the territory have burned, and the season is not

over yet.

Frontline workers and emergency management

personnel across the territory have been tested

time and time again over the life of this

Legislative Assembly. They often work

incredibly long hours for the benefit of

residents, and I would like to thank them for

their dedication to public service.

First responders have been with us every step

of the way, from the pandemic to natural

disasters. As this year's wildfire season

stretches into a sixth month, I want to thank

them for the amazing work they do each and

every day.

I would also like to thank our neighboring

provinces and territories who welcomed two

thirds of the territory's population during the

recent wildfire evacuations. Thank you to all the

Indigenous, federal, provincial, territorial and

community governments that provided support

during this very challenging time.

I also want to acknowledge the many

volunteers who provided meals, supported

families and did everything from giving rides to

offering a place to stay.

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6419

Finally, I want to extend my gratitude to the

Alberta Emergency Management Agency for

offering their assistance and expertise, and for

helping to coordinate with other agencies

across the province.

Mr. Speaker, during the life of this government,

my Cabinet colleagues and I have been

committed to serving the people of the

Northwest Territories. While our decisions have

not always been popular, they have always

been made with integrity and with the goal of

building a better future for us all.

This government's mandate reflected the 22

priorities set by all Members of the Legislative

Assembly. I am pleased to advise Members

that despite numerous challenges, this

government has fulfilled 77 percent of our

mandate commitments, another 13 percent are

in progress, 9 percent have been delayed, and

less than 1 percent have been discontinued.

Later today, I will table the final progress report

on the government's mandate which contains

more detail about each of the completed

commitments.

Since it was tabled in February 2020, the

GNWT has initiated and carried out many

significant actions in support of the mandate in

key areas, including strengthening

relationships with Indigenous governments and

advancing reconciliation, providing improved

social, economic, and governance supports for

NWT communities and residents, and

implementing efforts to grow, diversify, and

sustain our economy and strengthen climate

change action.

As a government, we work closely with our

colleagues, partners, and residents to make

notable progress on the promises we made

back in 2020. We have advanced our initiatives

despite significant adversity. I am particularly

proud of how well we adapted and continued to

prioritize the health and well-being of the

residents and communities of the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, while the mandate set out the

broad strokes of what we wanted to achieve

during the 19th Legislative Assembly, it is not

the only way to measure this government's

success. Supported by an incredible public

service, we have so much to be proud of.

During my time as Premier, I have spoken at

length about the importance of relationship

building and partnerships. In their mandate

letters, I set the expectation that every Minister

must foster constructive and respectful

government-to-government relationships with

Indigenous partners and seek ways to advance

reconciliation, recognize and affirm Aboriginal

rights, and support expanded program and

service delivery by Indigenous governments.

I am especially proud of the work we have done

with Indigenous governments. We have

furthered land and self-government

negotiations. We have removed the

requirements for Indigenous governments to

meet core principles and objectives, and we

have published our negotiating mandates for

clarity and transparency. We also established

the Northwest Territories Council of Leaders,

an example of meaningful collaboration

between leaders from across the Northwest

Territories, and this is a table at which the

Government of the Northwest Territories is just

one voice among many. The creation of this

table has allowed us to strengthen programs

and services, including working together to

tackle our housing crisis, to respond to the calls

for justice for Missing and Murdered Indigenous

Women and Girls, and to develop the proposed

United Nations Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples legislation, which I hope to

see passed this session.

This government has been focused on

improving the health and well-being of all

residents. We have made changes to income

assistance to better serve residents, we have

increased the number of public housing units,

and implemented a housing strategic renewal

framework. There are more supports than ever

to help seniors age in place. Significant

progress has been made toward building a

wellness and recovery centre in Yellowknife,

and mental health services are undergoing an

important transformation to ensure residents

can access them in their time of need. Earlier

this year, the Government of the Northwest

Territories also released the territory's alcohol

strategy which lays out concrete steps to

address alcohol-related harms through policy,

education, public safety, communications, and

treatment initiatives.

As part of the long-term commitment to primary

health care reform, we have seen the creation

of integrated care teams in Fort Smith, Fort

Good Hope, and Yellowknife to ensure

residents have access to care with the right

provider and can build relationships to enhance

continuum of care. The child and family

services quality improvement plan is helping

the government make real progress on

delivering culturally safe programs and services

to all NWT residents, including those most

vulnerable.

Mr. Speaker, I am very proud that the

homelessness strategy has been completed

during my time as Premier. This work was done

collaboratively with partners in the non-profit

sector and looks for realistic solutions to

challenges. Not only does this strategy set a

goal to increase the number of housing units,

including transitional housing, it also highlights

Page 6420 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

the need to integrate the delivery of various

services to ensure we focus on clients and their

needs, as well as their hopes and aspirations. I

look forward to seeing the progress on

implementing this strategy in the next

government.

We have also made great strides in how we

address public safety. The pandemic was a

wake-up call for governments around the world,

and we have learned from our response and

from the response of others and used those

lessons to inform how we respond to other

emergencies like wildfire and flooding.

The GNWT's Emergency Management

Organization, or EMO, has been put to the test

on multiple occasions over the last four years,

most recently during this year's wildfire season.

Lessons learned have resulted in continuous

improvement such as the addition of regional

EMO staff and updates to the GNWT's Disaster

Assistance Policy.

Mr. Speaker, The NWT is experiencing the

effects of climate change up to four times faster

than the rest of the world, and this has been top

of mind in decision-making for this government.

In addition to completing several climate

change-related mandate commitments, I want

to highlight the Government of the Northwest

Territories' Capital Asset Retrofit Fund, which is

now self-sufficient and will result in reduced

greenhouse gas emissions, including a

reduction of over 17,000 tonnes by the end of

this fiscal year. I am very happy to share that

$3.75 million of annual utility savings will go

towards funding 100 percent of next year's

Capital Asset Retrofit Fund.

In the last four years, our government has

overseen the completion of several major

capital projects, including the Tlicho Highway,

Ecole Itlo in Yellowknife, the Inuvik High

Powered Wind Turbine project, the Hay River

Fish Plant, and various highway improvement

projects. Further, we have successfully

operated and maintained hundreds of

government assets from buildings to highways

to ensure important services could continue to

be available, despite some exceptionally

difficult circumstances.

With the creation of the Department of

Environment and Climate Change, we have

also seen an improvement to how this

government coordinates and makes decisions

on land and natural resources management.

The updated Healthy Land Healthy People

work plan scopes out the future for protected

and conserved areas, and the Participant

Funding Program provides long-term secure

funding to establish and maintain protected and

conserved areas. We have also seen the

creation of protected and conserved areas

including the Edehzhie national Wildlife Area,

the Ts'ude Niline Tuyeta Indigenous and

territorial protected area, and the Sahtu K'aowe

Indigenous Protected and Conserved Area.

Collaboration on Public Land Act regulations

through the intergovernmental council on Land

and Resource Management Legislative

Development Protocol is also a transformative

approach for how we as a government work on

legislation.

On the education and training front, I am very

proud of the work of our education system and

of the hardworking educators across the

territory who adapted to the challenging

circumstances of the pandemic and pivoted to

an online learning model to allow students to

continue their studies at home. In fact, this year

NWT schools have once again adapted to

change as they begin to pilot curriculum from

British Columbia which is open to NWT

Indigenous ways and will appropriately

challenge students while supporting key

learning for life.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to highlight the

incredible work that has been done to advance

Indigenous language programming in NWT

schools. In particular, the Mentor Apprentice

Program helps apprentices increase their ability

to understand and speak their language by

living life in their language.

This government has worked hard to support

businesses, including continuing to promote the

importance of the resource sector and the

significant opportunities it holds, as well as

undertaking the long-awaited procurement

review. Private industry is a cornerstone of our

economy, and we have been working hard to

cut red tape and support entrepreneurs. I

recognize that more is needed to enable

government support for businesses during

emergencies, and it is my hope this will be top

of mind for the next government.

Mr. Speaker, we have made significant

changes to the way the Government of the

Northwest Territories does businesses. I want

to take this opportunity to again thank all

Members of the Legislative Assembly,

residents, businesses, community leaders,

stakeholders, and all budget dialogue

participants for their input in developing the

GNWT budgets during the 19th Legislative

Assembly.

The 2023-2024 Budget has been challenged by

the dramatically increased costs of this year's

wildfire season. As a result, our operating

surplus is expected to drop from a projected

$178 million to about $5 million. This drop in

operating surplus is expected in the current

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6421

fiscal year only and is not expected to persist in

future years. However, the GNWT will likely run

a deficit in 2023-2024 when our capital

expenditures are considered.

The fiscal outlook is stable despite these large

expenditure shocks, partly because Canada

will provide disaster relief funding. Under the

Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangement, in

the coming years the GNWT may recoup up to

90 percent of evacuation and rebuilding costs

incurred during the 2023 wildfire season.

Normally this can take several years, but we are

negotiating with Canada to advance some of

this money sooner. The federal government

has been receptive to this idea and is

considering it. The stable outlook is also due to

right-sizing the capital budget this fiscal year to

reflect the capacity to complete infrastructure

projects, which improved the cash balance and

debt outlook. Additionally, strengthening the

Fiscal Responsibility Policy so that GNWT total

borrowing is more closely linked to the

federally-imposed borrowing limit helps

maintain the stable outlook. So, while this will

be a challenging year, our overall fiscal

situation will remain relatively stable over the

next few years, and we do not anticipate

reaching the federal debt limit in the near term.

Mr. Speaker, during my time as Premier, I have

tirelessly advocated for the Northwest

Territories to receive appropriate funding from

the Government of Canada. I have been

especially vocal in the last year, particularly in

the media and at the various meetings of

Canada's Premiers. Most recently, I have been

clear that this has been a record-setting wildfire

season for the territory, including an

extraordinary financial cost and we cannot face

this burden alone.

Canada's failure to make transformational

investments will leave the Northwest Territories

facing the devastation and staggering cost of

climate change without sufficient economic

opportunities to cover the increased expenses.

Modern transportation, energy, and

telecommunications infrastructure are

paramount for the prosperity of Northerners

and to keep pace with our southern

counterparts. Such investments would support

life changing projects and enable NWT

residents to pursue financial stability.

The federal government's Arctic and Northern

Policy Framework, launched in 2019,

acknowledged the serious gaps between the

North and South when it comes to

infrastructure, as well as government programs

and supports available to residents. To date,

there has been no implementation plan, nor any

dedicated funding announced. I believe

strongly that these gaps have widened in recent

years due to the effects of the pandemic,

Canada's per capita funding model, and the

insistence that the NWT fit into national

program models without recognizing our unique

circumstances.

Northerners are not second-class citizens in

Canada and should not be treated as such. In

my final sessional statement as Premier, I want

to make one thing abundantly clear: The North

will not be silenced in its calls for treatment

equal to that received by Canadian provinces.

The time for investment in the North and true

partnership is now. I want to thank our allies in

Ottawa and beyond, for helping to amplify this

message to the federal government. We must

continue to deliver this message loud and clear

on behalf of all our residents.

In the final Session of the 19th Legislative

Assembly, we have critically important work

ahead to set up the next Legislative Assembly

for success. We will debate first-of-their-kind

legislation, including the Forest Act and the

United Nations Declaration of the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples Implementation Act. The

Forest Act was developed side-by-side with

Indigenous governments, Indigenous

organizations and renewable resource boards

using, for the first time, the intergovernmental

council on Land and Resource Management's

Legislative Development Protocol. The United

Nations Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples Implementation Act was

developed through the NWT Council of

Leaders, a shining example of partnership with

Indigenous governments and Indigenous

organizations. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous

consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am so pleased to be

closing out this Legislative Assembly with

incredibly strong relationships across the

territory.

Mr. Speaker, no Premier makes this journey

alone. I want to thank the public for holding me

and this government to account. I want to thank

the Ministers for their hard work over these past

four years and for the leadership they have

shown. To all levels of government, but

especially to Indigenous governments: Thank

for you working with us and developing what I

think are among the strongest relationships

between our government and Indigenous

leadership in the territory's history. Thank you

to my fellow Members for their passion and for

their many ideas to improve our territory. To the

staff that have supported Cabinet, my heartfelt

thanks for your dedication and expertise.

Mr. Speaker, it is bittersweet to deliver my final

sessional statement. The last four years have

challenged me in ways I cannot fully express,

Page 6422 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

but I can say with certainty that I have grown as

a person and as a leader. I have also been

privileged to see the personal and professional

growth of colleagues around this House.

As this government comes to an end, and

another is about to begin, I am optimistic when

I think about what's in store for the NWT.

I want to thank my colleagues for trusting me

four years ago. Leading our territory is one of

the great privileges of my life and I will be

forever grateful for the opportunity. Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Madam Premier.

Colleagues, before we continue, I wish to draw

your attention to the presence of a former

Member Kieron Testart in the gallery. Mr.

Testart was a Member for Kam Lake in the 18th

Assembly. Welcome to the Chamber.

Ministers' statements. Members' statements.

Member for Deh Cho.

Members’ Statements

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 1581-19(2):

WILDFIRE EVACUEES

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the recent wildfires will be etched

in everyone's minds for quite some time. Three

of the largest centres in the Northwest

Territories were affected with evacuation

orders: Fort Smith which includes Smith's

Landing First Nation; Hay River; Yellowknife,

which includes Dettah and N'dilo. Equally

affected were my riding communities of

K'atlodeeche, Enterprise, and Kakisa. This is

the largest evacuation order, ever, of residents,

due to wildfires. Hay River and K'atlodeeche

had faced evacuations back in May due to a

large, fast moving wildfire not seen previously,

and a fire of this magnitude should have been

a wake-up call.

Mr. Speaker, I, and on behalf of my colleagues,

extend sincere sympathies to the many

residents of our territory who were evacuated

from their homes and communities. To the

residents of Enterprise and Paradise Gardens,

words cannot replace what was lost in the fires.

But take solace, you were always in our

thoughts and prayers. Our heartfelt sympathies

to the many elders and long-term care patients

who were displaced and sent far from their

loved ones, you are all in our thoughts and

prayers.

Mr. Speaker, I and my colleagues would like to

extend heartfelt thanks and appreciation to the

fire crews, fire management teams, and the

many volunteers who were involved in

containing the wildfires. It was an onerous task

but you all stuck it out and for that the residents

are forever grateful. Mahsi.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Deh

Cho. Members' statements. Member for

Thebacha.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 1582-19(2):

THANKING FIRST RESPONDERS AND

RECOGNITION OF FORT SMITH

RESIDENTS

MS. MARTSELOS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, to begin this final sitting of the

19th Assembly, I would like to start by

recognizing and thanking all the people who

helped with Fort Smith's evacuation and

protection in this year's record-breaking wildfire

season. This includes all wildfire personnel in

the Department of Environment and Climate

Change formerly known as ENR, as well as the

personnel from Parks Canada, the Canadian

Armed Forces, the Department of MACA, the

business community, and regular citizens who

stepped up and volunteered to help in any way

they could. Thanks to the combined efforts of

all these groups, Fort Smith is still standing with

no homes lost or human lives lost due to

wildfires. Thank you also to those residents who

stayed behind to help, to defend, and look after

the community while it was evacuated.

As MLA for Thebacha, on behalf of the Fort

Smith residents, thank you everyone who

helped with these efforts of protecting Fort

Smith from disaster. Moreover, Mr. Speaker,

while it is certainly positive that Fort Smith itself

did not sustain any major physical damage due

to wildfires, the landscape has changed.

There are some sad stories that occurred

during the period of evacuation that I want to

share with you. With the permission of their

families, I am sad to report that Fort Smith lost

five citizens during the five weeks that we were

evacuated from our community. The names of

these individuals are Sandy Murphy, a senior

from the seniors home. Chris Caron whom I

traveled with every Friday through the entire

19th Assembly. I will miss him. Michael Walsh,

who I met during my last campaign in 2019 and

is a senior whose daughter is Shauna Walsh.

Jason Abraham, a Salt River Member. And

Philip MacDonald, who is also a Salt River

Member, and was the oldest person in Fort

Smith. On behalf of all Fort Smith residents, I

want to offer my heartfelt condolences to the

family, friends, and loved ones of each of these

individuals. These are a sad loss for our

community. It is always hard to lose someone

but I know that it was especially hard to handle

during such a mixed up time throughout our

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6423

town's evacuation. Mr. Speaker, I seek

unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Mr. Speaker, it is important to note that none of

these deceased individuals had died as a result

of the wildfires and that each person passed

away due to various reasons. There is,

however, an additional story that I want to

mention which did result in life loss due to

wildfire.

During the second evacuation of Hay River,

Fort Smith residents Mike Curet and his wife

Halina Kate did lose some animals along with

their truck and lifestock trailer as they were

fleeing Hay River. In all, they lost five alpacas

and two guard dogs named Luna and Cassie.

Those animals were part of Mike and Halina's

family, and it is very unfortunate that they died

during the evacuation.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I also want to

acknowledge the fallen NWT firefighter, Mr.

Adam Yeadon, who died on the job in July while

battling a fire near Fort Liard. Adam was a

Member of the Acho Dene Koe First Nation. He

was only 25 years old. He had a young

daughter and a loving partner whom he left

behind. As Thebacha MLA, I want to offer my

condolences to his family and his community for

this tragic loss.

And, lastly, I want to thank the Cabinet, all

Regular Members, all Regular MLA Members,

and all the staff of the Legislative Assembly,

who helped me navigate through this

evacuation.

I also want to thank my husband Peter and my

dog Rambo. Both of them stayed behind and

looked after people's pets, harvest people's

gardens since grocery trucks could not deliver

food due to road closures. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for

Thebacha. Members' statements. Member for

Hay River South.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 1583-19(2):

THANKS TO WILDFIRE CREWS AND

COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO PROTECTED

HAY RIVER

MR. ROCKY SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd first like to say Happy

Birthday to my son R.J.

Mr. Speaker, over the summer, wildfires in the

North South Slave Region destroyed homes,

businesses, and community infrastructure

which will have a long-lasting effect on the

emotional and mental well-being of residents of

Hay River, K'atlodeeche First Nation, and

Enterprise.

Mr. Speaker, many of us have seen first-hand

the devastation in Enterprise, Hay River, and

K'atlodeeche, and along the highway where

cabins were lost due to these wildfires.

Residents are asking, could more have been

done to get the fires under control sooner?

Possibly. But one thing is for sure, if not for the

immediate action by Hay River's EMO and the

sheer determination and work of those wildfire

and structural frontline firefighters, of those who

fought the fire from the air, and of those who

provided logistical and various supports to all

frontline workers, the outcome might have been

much different and much more devastating and

for this we thank them.

Mr. Speaker, this wildfire impacted residents of

Hay River and the residents of the South Slave

who were directed to evacuate on very short

notice which many did, and for that we must

thank them for their cooperation, patience, and

understanding throughout this ordeal. The

evacuation was not only for their safety and for

the safety of their family and neighbours but

provided frontline firefighters with room to

effectively fight the fire that surrounded and

endangered homes, businesses and

community infrastructure.

Mr. Speaker, the Yukon territory and the

provinces of Alberta, Manitoba, and British

Columbia, along with many of their residents,

businesses and NGOs, all stepped up and

welcomed our residents with open arms. They

mobilized quickly to provide accommodation,

meals, local transportation, mental health, and

medical health supports and more. For this, we

thank them.

Mr. Speaker, the First Nation and Metis

governments provided ongoing financial,

transportation, accommodation, and mental

health supports to their citizens throughout the

evacuation, as well many NGOs including

United Way, have been instrumental in

providing financial and other resources and

supports and fill gaps left by government. For

this, we thank them.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize the work

done by Hay River mayor Candace Jamieson,

councillor Robert Bouchard, and volunteer

Cathy McBryan who, among the many duties

they had, spent countless hours at the airport

ensuring safe and organized departures of all

evacuees of Hay River. For this, I thank them.

Thank you.

Page 6424 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Hay

River South Slave. Members' statements.

Member for Frame Lake.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 1584-19(2):

EVACUATIONS AND GOVERNMENT

SUPPORT

MR. O'REILLY: Merci, Monsieur le President.

Like most of us in this Chamber, my family and

I were the subjects of the mandatory evacuation

orders in August and September. I want to

extend my personal thanks to all those

firefighters, support workers, and other

essential service personnel that stayed behind

to protect our communities. I also want to thank

the Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, and

Yukon governments, the non-governmental

organizations, the volunteers, and businesses

that helped support our residents while we were

away. I also want to acknowledge that as bad

as Yellowknife had it, other communities

suffered longer evacuations and Enterprise,

K'atlodeeche, and Paradise Gardens are going

to need very substantial government

assistance with their future.

While it might be easy to criticize evacuations,

there is always room for improvement. It was a

miracle that 19,000 people were, for the most

part, able to leave Yellowknife safely over a

three-day period. Clearly there is also a need to

work more closely with Indigenous

governments for emergency management and

evacuations.

Moving forward, there are still two areas that

require further attention. Firstly, while I

appreciate Cabinet's work during evacuation,

the financial supports to date have not been

adequate or equitable. The evacuation travel

support program is not sufficient as $750 per

vehicle does not cover those who voluntarily left

on commercial flights, in some cases at great

personal expense so as to not stress

government charter flights, or those residents

that could not access supports upon evacuation

to other jurisdictions for a whole variety of

reasons. I will continue to fight for more

equitable and generous financial support.

Our small businesses also require more

support. Many have not fully recovered from

COVID when struck with impacts of these

evacuations. It is my understanding that

evacuations costs are eligible for up to 90

percent reimbursement under the federal

guidelines for the disaster financial assistance

arrangements. I fail to understand why Cabinet

cannot provide more and fair financial support

for evacuees and small businesses. Lastly, it is

now time to start to formulate the lessons

learned exercise for firefighting and emergency

management. As I have said before, this needs

to be a comprehensive, independent, and third

party public review. All available tools and

options including the Public Inquiries Act need

to be carefully considered with an opportunity

for public input. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Frame

Lake. Members' statements. Member for

Nunakput.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 1585-19(2):

RECOGNITION OF PASSING OF

NUNAKPUT RESIDENTS

MR. JACOBSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today, Nunakput constituents and former

residents who passed away since our last

sitting in June.

Paulatuk: Sadie Marie Grover Sikilak Lester

who passed away September 4th, 2023. Sadie

was a strong survivor who did everything she

could to raise her children as a single mother.

She was also a residential school survivor and

she will be sadly missed.

Sachs Harbour: Mr. Noah Carpenter, son of

Fred Carpenter and Ada Gruben. A respected

retired medical doctor, a surgeon, top in the

field of neurosurgeon. He will be retired and

living in Winnipeg, Manitoba. He is survived by

his siblings and many adopted brothers and

sisters. He was a Inuvialuit and a role model to

all the people.

Tuktoytakuk: Joanne Felix, a young lady from

Tuktoytakuk who passed away in Whitehorse,

Yukon. Our thoughts and prayers are with the

family, Mr. Speaker.

And again, Adam Yeadon, the young firefighter

who passed away, you know, working for the

people of the Northwest Territories' safety.

Thoughts and prayers are with his family.

Today, Mr. Speaker, I would also like to, people

that I grown up with in Tuk, Don Gruben Senior,

who passed away a few months ago and his

son Jerry passed away a few weeks ago. And

my thoughts and prayers are with Darlene and

the family. And gone but not forgotten.

My good buddy growing up and going to

residential school, Patty Elikuk. I just found out

Patty passed away and his funeral is today in

Inuvik and so thoughts and prayers with the

family.

And another good friend growing up, Jason

Firth, also known as Jim Bob. I got a lot of good

memories with him. And he will be sadly

missed. My thoughts and prayers are going out

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6425

to Hazel and to Jenkins and the family in Fort

McPherson.

And one of the toughest, the last couple of

weeks ago, Mr. Speaker, I lost my

brother-in-law, Bruce. And my sister Pauline,

that's my older sister, through the evacuation

and all that, you know, with all that being

traveling down to BC to the hospice there and

my sister and myself were there, caring for him,

and his brother was there, which was really

good, you know, and Bruce is a 14-year vet of

the Canadian Armed Forces. And I really

enjoyed his company while he was here with us

in Yellowknife and often spent a lot of time with

him. But to my sister Pauline, you are not alone,

and I love you and we are going to get through

this. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for

Nunakput. Our thoughts and prayers are with

the families and communities at this time.

Members' statements. Member for Tu

Nedhe-Wiilideh.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 1586-19(2):

RECOGNITION OF ESSENTIAL SERVICE

WORKERS

MR. EDJERICON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Northwest Territories has been through

hard times since the Assembly began four

years ago. The pandemic, floods, fire, even

war, have darkened our days and brought our

people nothing but stress and uncertainty. It

has also tested the resolve of this government

to steer the territory through the worst of times.

We are in the thick of it, Mr. Speaker. Even

today, session is on an emergency basis and I

think that it is important that we recognize the

people who have been working hard to protect

our communities while their friends and families

have been forced to evacuate. I would like to

say thank you and recognize all the essential

workers from the City of Yellowknife, Town of

Hay River, Town of Fort Smith, YKDFN, Kakisa,

K'atlodeeche Reserve.

Mr. Speaker, when I recognize these people

coming up shortly I just want to say, you know,

they have been working long days and nights to

protect our communities and our homes and be

ready to welcome, for me and my community

the Yellowknives Dene First Nation, home. I

want to say a big mahsi cho to Elvis Kotchilea,

Brian Proby, Kieron Testart, Bochia Kotchilea,

Therese Lynn, Roger Mackeinzo, Joe Dewar,

Cash McMann, Silent Safkin, Trisha Liske,

Norman Sangris, Gordon Sangris, Eric Capoe,

and the volunteers Brian Sundberg, Ethan

Sundberg, Ernest Betsina, Norman Betsina,

Nikki Betsina, including former chief Eddie

Sangris and chief Fred Sangris. And there are

so many others who have pitched in during

these times, mahsi cho again from the bottom

of my heart.

Mr. Speaker, Northerners are resilient and

strong. Our Indigenous brothers and sisters

have weathered greater storms that our

ancestors survived since time immemorial. The

community's display of compassion and

generosity is humbling. It is no surprise that we

are taking care of each other. That's what

Northerners do.

Mahsi to everyone who has stepped up to help

the evacuees from provinces, provincial

governments to the non-government

organizations, to cities and band councils, and

ordinary citizens pitching in to help. And I want

to recognize and include

Deninu Kue First Nation, the Fort Resolution

Metis Council, and Lutselk'e Dene First Nation.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to

conclude my Member statement. Thank you.

---Unanimous consent granted

Thank you, Mr. Speaker; thank you,

colleagues. But just because Northerners can

handle any crisis, it doesn't they don't have

questions about how this government has been

managing our current state of emergencies. It

does not take a scholar to notice that the

communication from our Cabinet colleagues

have been limited, confusing, and in some

cases contradictory. Just this alone has caused

enough for a concern. If our government cannot

effectively communicate, it seems unprepared

and for some untrustworthy.

Mr. Speaker, the people are frustrated and our

patience are running out. We cannot expect

that thousands of displaced residents can

support themselves without help from our

government. We must do more. Our people are

looking for us for leadership. Even though the

session is short, rest assured I am working day

and night to support my constituents through

the crisis and ensure our people that are back

safely to their homes and their traditional

territory. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Tu

Nedhe Wiilidhe. Members' statements.

Member for Great Slave.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 1587-19(2):

CLIMATE CHANGE AND EMERGENCY

RESPONSE PLANNING

MS. NOKLEBY: Thank you. I’d like to also

welcome everyone back into the House for the

final sitting of the 19th Assembly. I also want to

welcome back the residents of Yellowknife as

Page 6426 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

well as those who were displaced for so long in

the South Slave. I am very proud of the strength

and resiliency of the residents of the NWT, of

how people took care of each other. My social

media feeds were full of people pitching in,

sharing information, and providing resources to

those less fortunate. It was truly heartwarming.

I also want to thank the hard-working fire,

military, and safety personnel from the NWT

and Alberta, and across Canada and the globe.

They worked tirelessly and at great peril to

protect our communities and keep people safe,

and we owe them a huge thank you.

Mr. Speaker, as we entered the 2023 fire

season, SCEDE had been working on Bill 74,

the Forest Act. In the spring we traveled to

several communities and received input from

stakeholders and interested parties. This work

confirmed for me that the NWT is woefully

unprepared for climate-driven emergencies.

From an out-of-date 2018 emergency plan to

putting the onus on underfunded communities

to take care of their own preparedness,

mitigation, and response, the NWT is poised to

face costly climate disaster after climate

disaster for the foreseeable future. We must be

proactive now and create community specific

mitigation and response plans that incorporate

Indigenous science and local knowledge to

properly care for the land.

Mr. Speaker, why have we not seen an updated

Emergency Response Plan during this

Assembly, one that accounts for our rapidly

changing climate? Emergency Response Plans

should be considered living documents with

annual updates and training. Has any of this

happened or is the last time anyone looked at

the plan in 2018?

In 2021, the Minister of ENR and I traveled to

the UN climate conference in Glasgow where

he had one goal. His job was to impress upon

the federal government that the NWT was

experiencing climate change at an

unprecedented rate; to make the Liberal

government understand that we could not

afford to pay for their climate change election

promises, nor did we have the capacity to do

so. Considering the controversial tax imposed

on us all in the spring, it's clear that this mission

was a failure. And I am very concerned that if

the GNWT does not get serious now and

proactively address climate change and

emergency response in the coming months, we

are going to find ourselves in the same situation

next summer. And Mr. Speaker, I can't think of

anything worse for the mental well-being of our

people if that was to happen. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Great

Slave. Members' statements. Member for

Monfwi.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 1588-19(2):

NORTHWEST TERRITORIES WILDFIRE

POLICY

MS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we all know this has

been the worst forest fire season in the NWT

history. This is the first time in history that

two-thirds of NWT residents were forced to

leave their homes. These tragic events

displaced nearly 30,000 people for weeks and

resulted in the loss of millions of hectares of

land burned. In Tlicho region, four houses and

15 traditional cabins burned, as well

devastating loss of traditional food from both

vegetation and wildlife. The damage done to

our lands will take decades to repair.

Mr. Speaker, this fire season has seen two

Tlicho communities, Wekweeti and Behchoko,

needing to be evacuated. Other communities

were also evacuated, and some were put on

alert status.

Mr. Speaker, the GNWT current wildfire

management policy has completely failed the

people of the NWT. All NWT residents have

been impacted and millions of hectares of land

destroyed across the NWT. This wildfire

management policy needs to change before

more damage is done to NWT lands and

communities.

Mr. Speaker, these fires all started out small

and controllable. In such a dry, in a hot dry year,

these fires should have been put out right away,

not allowed to burn hoping that they extinguish

themselves. This failure allowed millions of

hectares of land destroyed and impacted the

lives of every NWT resident. We cannot even

begin to estimate the wildlife, the animals

burned, plants, and all the animal habitat

destroyed and the long-term impact this will

have on residents of the NWT. Mr. Speaker, I

seek unanimous consent to conclude my

statement. Thank you.

---Unanimous consent granted

Mr. Speaker, all fire seasons, during all the fire

seasons, the Minister has said that it is the

hottest driest year, and that is true. In these

extreme weather condition, a change to the

policy should have happened. Letting fires burn

until they threaten critical infrastructure has

catastrophic results for the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, GNWT policy may have failed the

people of the NWT the people of NWT did not

fail each other. The people of the NWT were

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6427

there to support one another. They opened

their homes and hearts, volunteered their time

and resources to support each other. It makes

me proud to be a resident of the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the firefighters for

the work that they do. They put their lives on the

line and work countless hours to save NWT

communities and our communities of Wekweeti

and Behchoko. I also want to thank all the

community government workers, volunteers,

people who stayed behind in Behchoko and

Wekweeti to support the firefighters. Even after

ECC pulled out of Behchoko, some residents

stayed behind to continue fighting the fire and

save our community.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to thank all the people

who supported Tlicho citizens during Behchoko

and Wekweeti evacuation in Yellowknife.

Thank you for your generosity and kindness.

Mr. Speaker, we were not happy with how our

Tlicho communities were treated during

Yellowknife evacuation. I will have another

Member statement to discuss these concerns.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for

Monfwi. Members' statements. Member for

Kam Lake.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 1589-19(2):

POST-EVACUATION BUSINESS SUPPORTS

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I have stood in this House and

have spoke about the symbiotic relationship

between between GNWT and private industry.

We have a fundamental need for the

sustainability of private industry. Its growth and

prosperity is a true indicator of a healthy

economic environment.

Here in Yellowknife, we saw firsthand how

reliant governments are on private industry.

Our private industry is the backbone of this

territory and showed up in a big way as

business and public servants worked together

to fire smart this town.

A healthy territory relies on a vibrant private

sector which isn't only a reliance on the

businesses deemed essential and able to stay.

We rely on hundreds of business from medium

corporations and limited liability companies to

small and home-based businesses that

collectively serve residents and government.

Mr. Speaker, our businesses are hurting. Many

have said evacuations hit harder than COVID.

Hay River businesses experienced three

evacuations in a year and a half, South Slave

operators saw significant weeks of

evacuations. Some South Slave businesses

lost everything. And even with the three weeks

of evacuation here in Yellowknife, without

infrastructure loss, cost financial shortfalls of

$20,000 in some and well over hundreds of

thousands in others.

Mr. Speaker, the income disruption policy is not

reflective of northern wages and owners don't

qualify. The SEED relief covers some monthly

expenses but is capped at $5,000 as is the

BDIC WARM funding. I have heard some

people say that businesses should have had

insurance, but business insurance does not

cover natural disasters or pandemics. Multiple

Kam Lake businesses continue to pay salaries

or allowances to staff out of a personal duty of

loyalty and care for their employees. With no

billable hours, this caused incredible hardship

for those employers.

Mr. Speaker, in a nation with a labour shortage,

these employers need their staff to return to

Yellowknife to continue to fulfill fall contracts.

And this government needs those residents to

come home too. Some businesses, without the

cash flow to continue to pay salary, lost staff

who couldn't weather the uncertainty of an

evacuation, some have cancelled contracts or

shifted business operations, driving summer

work into winter months with greater costs while

others work on an exit plan, Mr. Speaker. This

means we have not yet experienced the actual

fire season cost as the dominoes continue to

fall in private industry. Businesses need to save

for a rainy day they say but this is not a rainy

day, Mr. Speaker. These are the impacts of

unmitigated climate change on a territory

without a viable aspirational plan. Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam

Lake. Members' statements. Member for

Yellowknife North.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 1590-19(2):

WILDFIRE EVACUATIONS

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I

would like to join in my colleagues and thanking

all of our forestry firefighters, all of those who

worked at -- our pilots, our tanker bases, in

those logistics, to the hundreds of volunteers in

multiple communities, especially here in

Yellowknife who stayed behind and built what

is truly an impressive fire break in a matter of

days as well as all of the municipal staff. And

lastly, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank all of

our constituents who have been through a lot,

and it seems like the majority of time in this

Assembly has been spent in some sort of state

of emergency, and it feels like we just can't get

a rest. I know a lot of us are feeling like little

Page 6428 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

stress, and I encourage everyone, you know, to

try and take some time now to recover and

hopefully we get a little break from this never-

ending string of emergencies.

But Mr. Speaker, that may not be the case, and

I want to echo the sentiment of some of my

colleagues that we have to take this after-action

review seriously. We have to work with our

municipalities, and I think that we have to

answer some fundamental questions, one is on

fire management. Are we spending enough on

fire prevention or are communities properly

funded to build fire breaks? Are we doing

enough control burning now that cooler weather

is with us? Emergency management, can we

really continue to have our communities be the

lead on emergency management?

Here in Yellowknife, it was very clear that the

City of Yellowknife was never resourced and

funded to do air evacuation or to evacuate a

whole city, let alone provide accommodations

across multiple jurisdictions. We stepped that

up and did that, but it raises fundamental

questions about where that responsibility

should lie in the first place.

I think there are lots of questions about our

forest management practices going forward.

Certainly we have spent hundreds of millions of

dollars on suppression, and we are experts in

that front. But there are questions about how

large fire breaks need to be built around

communities. Communities, two of them, we

had the opportunity to tragically to see the one

in Enterprise just before the community was

burnt, Mr. Speaker, and they were proud of the

size of that. But was there any size of fire break

that would have prevented that fire or would

control burning have done that? I don't have

these answers. They are technical questions,

but I think this is the entire scope of an after-

action review that we owe our citizens and I

think needs public input from the public and all

the community and all of the people involved in

this so we can answer some of these questions

and we don't find ourselves fighting over

jurisdiction in the midst of an emergency again.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for

Yellowknife North. Members' statements.

Member for Nahendeh.

MEMBER’S STATEMENT 1591-19(2):

EULOGY FOR ADAM YEADON

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Adam Blake Yeadon

was born on August 30th, 1997, at Fort Nelson

BC to Barbara Bertrand and Jack Yeadon.

Adam was the fourth of five children.

Adam was raised in Fort Liard where he lived

most of his life. He went to Bella Coola for a

couple of years with his dad and brother

Jackson, but his heart was calling him home

and he came back to live with his sister Donna

and her husband Norman.

He was dedicated -- described as a loveable

and happy child who grew into a generous

young man with drive and enthusiasm. He was

always willing and smiling, hardworking, and

loved using the chainsaw. It was his prized

possession.

Mr. Speaker, Adam was most happy when he

was on the land. He was never afraid to be

alone in the bush; it's where he felt his happiest

and safe and connected. He was a determined

individual. A perfect example was when he was

17 years old, he decided that he wanted to be

a wild land firefighter so, when the plane landed

in Fort Liard to take people to Fort Simpson for

training, he jumped on the plane. Unfortunately,

when he landed an instructor looked at him and

asked him his age. After telling him the truth, his

age, he was then sent home on the next plane

to Fort Liard. This not did not stop him. The

following year, he was prepared and ready

when the call came for people interested in

training. Once he took the training, it confirmed

his passion to be a wild land firefighter. He

loved his EFF family immensely and took his

job very seriously. He was very proud to be part

of the EFF community.

On February 21st, 2020, his dad's birthday, his

life improved with Keena coming into his life.

She remembered going for a walk that day and

Adam stopped her for a chat. This moment led

to them getting together and the following year

they both welcomed their most beautiful baby,

Aisey. Adam was such a loving father and very

protective of his family. Adam was very loved

by his family and friends. They returned the love

he had for them.

Mr. Speaker, I am proud to say his colleagues

built and placed a cross on the site where he

passed away and will be doing a moment of

silence at the start of each fire season. This was

due to their respect for him.

The family would like to thank ECC for all the

support they received during this difficult time,

and the Premier for being able to come to the

funeral. He is predeceased by his loving mother

who passed away in 2006.

Mr. Speaker, he will be greatly remembered

and loved by his father Jack, brothers Carl and

Jackson, his sisters Crystal and Donna, his

girlfriend Keena and his daughter Aisey, his

extended family, friends, and the firefighting

family in the community ever Fort Liard and the

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6429

residents of the Nahendeh. Mr. Speaker, he will

be sadly missed.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for

Nahendeh. Our continued thoughts and

prayers for the family and community at this

time.

Members' statements. Returns to oral

questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Member for Great Slave.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

MS. NOKLEBY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to recognize my

constituent Julie Thrasher who, unfortunately, I

can't see from where I sit. But Julie is a Great

Slave constituent, also originally from Inuvik,

and also a strong supporter in the community,

often feeding and helping the vulnerable

population. So I just wanted to say thank you to

Julie for that work; it's well needed. So thank

you; welcome.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Great

Slave. Recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Member for Inuvik Boot Lake.

HON. DIANE ARCHIE: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would also like to

recognize Julie in the gallery as well. I knew her

growing up in Aklavik, and she's a good friend

of mine and she's like family. So thank you for

being here, Julie. Mahsi.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Inuvik

Boot Lake. Recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Member for Tu Nedhe Wiilidheh.

MR. EDJERICON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I just want to recognize the

drummers that were here earlier at the

beginning of the session. And I'd like to

recognize Cody Drygeese, Lerory Betsina,

Cody Liske, Daniel Liske, Randy Bellageron,

Ethan Sundberg. I also want to recognize my

CA Shirley Tsetta, and all the translators; it's

good to see you all back again. And GNWT staff

and the ledge staff. And also Pascal Erasmus

who was here a little earlier. And Kieron Testart,

former MLA for the Yellowknife area. Mahsi.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Tu

Nedhe-Wiilideh. Recognition of visitors in the

gallery. Member for Range Lake.

HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. I'd also like to recognize Mr.

Kieron Testart who is a constituent of Range

Lake and I believe is putting his name forward,

so welcome to the gallery. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Range

Lake. Recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Acknowledgements. Oral Questions. Member

for Hay River South.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Range

Lake. Recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Acknowledgements. Oral questions. Member

for Hay River South.

Oral Questions

ORAL QUESTION 1573-19(2):

NATURAL DISASTER FINANCIAL

PROGRAM SUPPORTS FOR BUSINESSES

MR. ROCKY SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd ask the Premier to

confirm what programs and associated funding

amounts are in place to specifically support

businesses impacted by the wildfires, and how

quickly can we get that support out to alleviate

the financial burden on our local businesses?

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Hay

River South. Madam Premier.

HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: I think I'd like

to defer that to the Minister of Finance. Thank

you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Madam Premier.

Minister responsible for Finance.

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at present, there's

two programs already operational, and they

were both stood during the midst of the

evacuation. The first one I'll speak to out of the

Department of Industry, Tourism and

Investment. We changed the SEED program

that a lot of businesses that are familiar with,

added on a directive relating specifically to the

wildfires. Under this program at present, there

is a contribution amount of up to $5,000 for

eligible costs that were incurred. There's also,

under the BDIC, they've also had their

board -- brought their board together and

established a program that they're calling the

Wildfire Assistance and Relief Measures

Program. It's very similar, and it provides up to

$5,000 again for evacuated communities,

businesses, and $3,500 for those that are in

business -- or in communities that were

otherwise affected. And the two are working

together just to ensure that they can try to

maximize benefits for businesses that might be

eligible under the program. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. ROCKY SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. It's good to hear that we do have

some programs. It's not a lot of money because

Page 6430 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

for Hay River and, you know, Enterprise and

K'atlodeeche, you know, we've been through,

you know, three major events here in the last

15 months, and it's really taken its impact -- it's

really impacting businesses. So I think we have

to take another look at that. But anyways, Mr.

Speaker, I'd ask the Premier if any requests

have gone into the federal government for

additional financial support for businesses

impacted by the wildfires; if so, and what has

the response been? Thank you.

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. That one, Mr. Speaker, really

does lay largely in the purview of the Premier's

office. But given the multi-department nature of

the evacuations and the emergencies, quite a

number of departments are working together to

be in touch with their counterparts. I know ITI

officials are in touch with their counterparts. But

beyond that, we've also all been contributing to

work that's happening out of the Premier's

office. And with the invitation of the federal

government, knowing that we're going to have

some asks, to prepare a very thorough and

complete look at what kind of asks we might

have and what they would be. So that is going

out. If it hasn't gone out in a formal sense but,

again, that's coming because of the

conversations happening both out of the

Premier's office but with a lot of our officials.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. ROCKY SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. And I appreciate that answer. You

know, however, you know, like I say, we've

gone through three major events in Hay River

and, you know, a year after the flood, we're

still -- you know, we still got a number of files

that need to be actioned. And when I see what's

happened here, it's going to be -- this is going

to be still existing after the next Assembly, the

way things are going. So I think we need to be

really proactive and forceful when we're dealing

with the federal government to try and get

additional funds, otherwise we're going to lose

residents, we're going to lose businesses, and

we're going to see, you know, the NWT kind of

end up being almost a third world area. So

anyways, Mr. Speaker, what percent -- I'd ask

the Premier what percentage of wildfire and

evacuation costs will the federal government

reimburse this government and how quickly can

we expect to see that reimbursement? Thank

you.

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at a practical level,

that's Department of MACA but, really, from a

government fiscal perspective, I can say that

the Department of Finance is looking quite

closely at what we might get. There's a sliding

scale for -- under the disaster financial

assistance arrangements. That's the federal

program that applies to all provinces and

territories. When you get to a certain level,

which we most certainly have hit, you can get

up to 90 percent of eligible costs. And that's the

tricky part, Mr. Speaker, is that I don't get to

determine what the eligible costs are. What we

do is we ask for everything. But it certainly is

unlikely that we will be getting everything. And

whatever we do get will come at 90 percent

amount. But, Mr. Speaker, we certainly will

continue to adapt the response of the

Government of the Northwest Territories. Twice

now in the sort of preambles of questions, the

Members sort of mentioned if there's

insufficiency. Mr. Speaker, just like I said in

COVID many times, the government continues

to monitor their response, and we'll continue to

do its best to adapt as we go forward. Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Final

supplementary. Member for Hay River South.

MR. ROCKY SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. And, you know, it's important, I think

that -- I think that we as government, and the

future government, really take a look at what

happened here in this last few years because

when you look at what happened with the

flooding and also with the fires now, the impact

it had. It had -- for Hay River, it impacted the

fishing industry. For communities along the

waterways, it impacted access to their cargo.

You know, it just goes on and on. It -- you know,

basically it really impacted businesses,

individuals, health -- people's health,

everything. So I think it's very important that this

government and future governments really take

a look at it. But, Mr. Speaker, over the past four

years, this territory has experienced major

disaster -- disasters, and there appears to be a

pattern emerging.

Going forward, what is this government, in

terms of planning and costing, doing to prepare

for climate change and future disasters as they

occur? Thank you.

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the wildfires, the

floods, COVID have certainly impacted every

single sector large and small. Larger

businesses might have the ability to weather it

better but that certainly doesn't make it any

easier. It's also impacted all levels of

government and it has impacted this

government.

Mr. Speaker, we can't necessarily -- if I could

plan for a large scale natural disaster, you'd see

a budget line item for -- you know, to plan for

the large scale emergency. We aren't able to

plan for a large scale emergency by virtue of the

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6431

fact that it's an emergency. What we can do, Mr.

Speaker, is keep our fiscal House in order so

that we have the capacity to provide relief and

we have the capacity to provide funding, we

have the capacity to support these emergent

events as they occur, and to be able to stand

and say look, we'll continue to adapt that

response. So, Mr. Speaker, we were lucky to

have forecasted a significant operating surplus

this year. That has given us a cushion from

which we were able to then provide a response

to the emergency, and we're going to have to

continue to be mindful of how we get back to

that place of having large operational surpluses

so we have that financial flexibility to be able to

respond if or when an emergency occurs.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Oral

questions. Member for Frame Lake.

ORAL QUESTION 1574-19(2):

ADEQUACY OF GOVERNMENT SUPPORT

DURING NATURAL DISASTERS

MR. O'REILLY: Merci, Monsieur le President.

My questions are for the Premier. With regard

to the recent evacuations and adequacy of

government supports, it's my understanding

that evacuation costs are eligible up -- for up to

90 percent reimbursement under the federal

guidelines for the disaster financial assistance

arrangements. Page 19, eligible response

costs include temporary relocation, shelter,

food, clothing, rescue, transportation, and

related social and inquiry services. End of

quote.

So can the Premier confirm whether evacuation

costs for NWT residents, including any GNWT

initiatives such as the Evacuation Travel

Support Program, are eligible for federal

reimbursement? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Frame

Lake. Madam Premier.

HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. I'd like to defer that to the Minister

of Municipal and Community Affairs. Thank

you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Madam Premier.

Minister responsible for MACA.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, all disaster experienced

to date in the Northwest Territories are eligible

for reimbursement under two federal funding

programs. The Disaster Financial Assistance

Arrangement, or DFAA, and Emergency

Management Assistance Program, or EMAP. In

the event of a large scale natural disasters, the

DFAA provides reimbursement to territorial,

plus provincial governments for related costs,

including evacuations. The GNWT will seek

reimbursement for all evacuation related costs

which we have incurred. This includes the

Evacuation Travel Support Program and direct

GNWT costs such as flights and

accommodations. Evacuation costs incurred by

NWT residents are not eligible for

reimbursement under DFAA. This is because

DFAA is a program of last resort. After all

resources of funding, including insurance, have

been exhausted, this -- it is not an insurance

program. It is an -- and it's not a compensation

program. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. O'REILLY: Merci, Monsieur le President. I

want to thank the Minister for that. So given that

most of the evacuation costs are reimbursed

well, I just don't understand why our support

programs haven't been a little more generous

and fairer. So I've received numerous

complaints about the unfairness and

inadequacy of the Evacuation Travel Support

Program. So can the Premier tell us whether

Cabinet is ready to reconsider the scope and

amount of the current program and better

support our residents that were evacuated?

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Department of

Finance is not considering expanding the scope

and amount to the Evacuation Travel Support

Program. The Evacuation Travel Support

Program was established to provide financial

relief to NWT residents who evacuated in a

vehicle during the evacuation that occurred as

a result of the 2023 wildfires. I recognize that

funding through this program alone does not

cover all potential costs associated with the

evacuation or incurred by residents.

In addition to the Evacuation Travel Support

Program, the GNWT offered a number of

different supports for evacuees during the

evacuation including evacuation charter flights,

gas at the Alberta border for evacuees who

drove, accommodations at evacuation centres,

and private accommodations where space was

limited at evacuation centres, food allowance

and meals, access to free municipal and

provincial campgrounds, and a donation of

$400,000 to the United Way to support the

number of community organizations. I

encourage residents to contact their insurance

companies to see if they have coverage for

evacuation in their policy. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. O'REILLY: Merci, Monsieur le President.

I'm sure the Minister recognizes that I'm going

to keep fighting for better support for the

evacuees. But during my statement, I

Page 6432 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

recognized that it was quite an accomplishment

to evacuate most Yellowknife residents safely

over a very short period of time. However, there

can and should be improvements made to how

we work together with Indigenous

governments, including legislative and policy

changes. So can the Minister tell us how GNWT

intends to work better with Indigenous

governments in the future on emergency

management? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, MACA's experience is

that many Indigenous governments work

directly with community governments as part of

their local EMO. Emergency management

works best when it's addressed at the local

level and by those who can direct community

government staff and have the authority to

mobilize community government, its assets, as

part of the emergency response. There does

need to be more clarity on roles and

responsibilities, including relationships

between the local EMO and the regional EMO

and the territorial EMO, especially given the

Emergency Management Act assigned

responsibility for emergency management to

community governments. We recognize there

needs to be further cooperation with Indigenous

governments for emergencies, and we will -- we

want to hear directly from the Indigenous

governments as part of the after-action review.

And I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, I've had a

number of conversations with Indigenous

leaders on that, and I agree we need to work

better together. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. O'REILLY: Thank you, Minister. Final

supplementary. Member for Frame Lake.

MR. O'REILLY: Merci, Monsieur le President. I

want to thank the Minister for that. I believe he's

quite sincere, and I do appreciate his efforts on

that front, so.

I believe it is time, though, Mr. Speaker, to start

to think about lessons learned about a fire and

emergency management from these

evacuations. There should be an independent

third-party public review, and I think one of the

options that needs to be considered is the

Public Inquiries Act. But I'd like to know from the

Minister whether Cabinet has a position and a

direction on such a review of fire and

emergency management. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yes, we've already

started to turn our attention to the lessons

learned on the emergency management side.

People have been taking notes. We've been

working with the municipalities, hearing things

that work really well, and things that we can

improve on. There will be an independent third

party review. It is a standard practice in all

jurisdictions to conduct an after-action review

after disaster events to examine what

happened, what worked, and what didn't, and

to make recommendations for improvements

going forward. The 2023 wildfire after-action

review is anticipated to be a large undertaking

and will be public. We want to hear from the

public, staff working directly on the emergency

response, Indigenous governments, NGOs,

federal and provincial, territorial partners who

assisted with providing evacuation supports

and others. We will not be waiting for

recommendations to start making

improvements. We know that much work can

start now, including review of the NWT

emergency plan, increase training to support

the community governments, starting a review

with the Emergency Management Act. This

work cannot be finalized until the

recommendations are provided. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Oral

questions. Member for Deh Cho.

ORAL QUESTION 1575-19(2):

MANAGEMENT OF WILDFIRE NEAR

ENTERPRISE

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, my questions are related to the

recent wildfires which caused widespread

evacuations and total destruction to properties.

The wildfire at Enterprise was burning prior to

the devastating day of August 13th.

Can the Minister of ECC apprise this House as

to why the wildfire near the hamlet of Enterprise

was allowed to burn out of control for several

days prior to the devastation and evacuation of

the residents? Mahsi.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Deh

Cho. Minister responsible for Environment and

Climate Change.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I can assure this House

that the wildfire that impacted the community of

Enterprise received initial attack and was

actioned consistently prior to the disaster of

August 13th. The fire was initially identified on

August 2nd and an initial attack within two

hours. I repeat, two hours.

Within two hours, that grew -- the fire grew from

three hectares to 120 hectares with extreme

weather conditions that include very strong

winds. The fire was actioned by crews and/or

aircraft as conditions allowed from the time it

was discovered but the extreme fire conditions

and extreme fire behaviour made fighting the

fire very challenging and limited ability to -- for

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6433

ignition operations to be completed. Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker,

and mahsi to the Minister for the all the

information that they were fighting the fires prior

to. And it's kind of confusing because the fires

kind of snuck up to the community on that day,

you know, after all the Department of ECC and

fire management help have all the necessary

tools and information at their fingertips to

determine whether wind and wind speed, yet

these systems seemed to have failed on that

day or just prior to that day.

Can the Minister apprise this House as to why

these factors and tools were not taken into

account prior to the devastating day? Mahsi.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to state

again that the fire was actioned as conditions

allowed from start on August 2nd. The tragic

event on August 13th were because of the

environmental conditions and extreme wind

event. Wind gusted higher than forecasted in

the area that already had severe drought and

burning conditions. Our team worked with the

best information available from the beginning of

this fire and used the tools and approaches

available to us. The unfortunate reality is that

we had a perfect storm of buildup of forest fuel,

very high drought codes, and extreme wind

event, extremely challenging fire behaviour,

that resulted in this situation. I recognize the

impact that this devastating loss had on the

hamlet of Enterprise, and my thoughts are with

them. We had been in the community on

September 5th and 11th with the senior officials

to discuss the fire event on August 13th.

Mr. Speaker, I had the opportunity to talk to a

number of incident commanders, as well as we

brought in our old retired firefighters that had

dealt with fires in the past and they basically all

said the same thing. We were in a situation that

was unique to the -- us. They've never seen it

before. We've seen disaster -- this fire react; we

didn't expect it to do. So we did everything we

could. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

And mahsi to the Minister for that. Mr. Speaker,

I understand other wildfires at other

communities were happening at the same time,

and the fire attack crews may have been spread

out.

Can the Minister apprise this House why no fire

attack crews were at Enterprise although the

fire was at their doorstep for days? Mahsi.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the fire was more than

30 kilometers away from Enterprise for days

before it impacted the community. The fire was

closer to Kakisa before this extreme wind event

pushed it towards the community of Enterprise,

which was further than predicted by models.

Aircraft and crews actioned this fire consistently

as conditions allowed throughout their

response beginning with initial attack on August

2nd. The fire impacted on Enterprise was not a

result of crews being spread out, but it was a

result of extreme wind event and environmental

conditions. This caused the fire to burn at

extreme intensity and speed driven by wind

which was made worse by severe drought and

built up fuel in the environment causing

explosive conditions. It is important to note that

there are times crews and aircrafts were not

able to fight the fire due to smoke and the fast

movement of the fires. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Final

supplementary. Member for Deh Cho.

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker,

and mahsi to the Minister. Mr. Speaker, we hear

of a couple of brothers from Enterprise, along

with other volunteers, putting out fires that were

continually flaring up throughout the community

of Enterprise after the initial wildfire. They note

that there were no ECC fire crews for more than

five days to assist and this was well after the

main fire tore through the hamlet.

Can the Minister apprise this House as to why

no fire crews were available in the community

to monitor and fight the fires? Mahsi.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member talked

about those two brothers who were helping

and, again, I say thank you very much to them

for the work that they did there.

Mr. Speaker, after the wildfire hit the

community, many of the flare-ups that were

associated with this were structural fires. Our

wildfire firefighters are not trained in this. That

there was very much about structural

firefighters that need to do the work there.

While meeting with the hamlet, we are made

aware of these concerns and are committed to

looking into this in an after-action review. ECC

is still working on fires and once the season is

complete, the after-action review will be the

number 1 priority. So we will be working on it.

And some of this -- the challenges that the

Member talked about is our wildfire fighters do

not fight structural fires. That there is volunteer

firefighters or fire crews. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Oral

questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 6434 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

ORAL QUESTION 1576-19(2):

POST-EVACUATION BUSINESS SUPPORTS

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to continue on my

colleague's question -- my colleague from

Frame Lake's question for the Minister of

Municipal and Community Affairs in regards to

the Disaster Financial Assistance Arrangement

policy through the federal government.

My first question is in regards to airfare, Mr.

Speaker.

So here in Yellowknife, the language that was

coming out from the government was if you can

get yourself on a commercial flight, get to the

airport, get on a flight, get out of town, please

leave as soon as you possibly can. And so

numerous residents did that. They listened to

the government. They booked themselves a

flight if they could afford to do so, even if they

couldn't really long-term sustainably afford to

do so, they did it. I have residents who spent

rent money on airfare in order to listen to the

government, support the government's efforts

to evacuate Yellowknife and get out of town.

Those residents are now out airfare because

they did not sit and wait for evacuation flights.

And at the time, here in Yellowknife, the

sentiment around town was one of chaos and

confusion. There was a lot of

miscommunication -- or not miscommunication,

but competing communication, residents

having to piece together communication and

information that was coming out from different

levels of government. And so residents did what

they could to get out of town and get

themselves and their family out of harm's way.

And so I'm wondering if this policy speaks

directly to recovery of cost for transportation,

why will the government not refund the cost of

airfare that residents paid for out-of-pocket at

the request of this government? Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam

Lake. Minister responsible for Municipal and

Community Affairs.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, section 4 of the DFAA

deals with the public sector expense eligibility.

Section 4(1)(1) is in reference to provincial

territorial eligible costs. If a province or a

territory provides temporary relocation, shelter,

etcetera to residents. The GNWT did provide

evacuation support, including transportation,

accommodation, and food. And so the GNWT

will be making a claim for its cost for those

eligible expenses under the DFAA. Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I had the privilege of

being on the ground here in Yellowknife on

those days when an evacuation was called. On

the evening of Wednesday -- I can't even

remember the date now -- August 16th, when it

was called, the people who could get on a flight

that night, they got themselves on a flight that

night. The very next day, thousands of people

lined up at Sir John waiting for flights, and if you

drove out to the airport after going down and

looking at the thousands of people waiting for

flights, there were no planes on the ground at

the airport. So people were worried. They were

concerned. And if a flight came up, they got on

it. So while there were on Friday numerous

flights available for people, multiple people got

up and left town if they could because there was

a lot of fear in town. There was a lot of people

with kids, with elders, people -- human beings

that just wanted to get on a plane and get out of

town. For -- what I don't understand there is I

understand what the Minister is saying that

there were eventually charter flights available

but there was a lot of confusion around that,

and there was a lot of waiting and a lot of people

who wanted to do what they could to get out.

So I don't understand why the government can

pay for a charter flight but they can't pay for a

resident. As we saw with the reentry flights,

there was a lot of confusion, a lot of waiting.

Some people -- I have some residents who

have never received an email back from the

reentry registration emails. Luckily, they are

back in town. They paid for a flight and they got

themselves home, but they had to get back to

work, they had to be here so that the rest of us

could enjoy their services and they could be

here to serve the rest of town. So while people

tried to support evacuation flights, it didn't

always work out.

But my next question, Mr. Speaker, is in

regards to hotels. Residents from Hay River

were told get out now, go to Grande Prairie.

They got out now. They went to Grande Prairie.

They weren't set up and ready for residents yet.

Red Cross said to them, go book yourself at a

hotel. They later found out they didn't pick the

right hotel, so they weren't covered. I have

residents who went to the evacuation centre in

Edmonton. They waited for five days before

they received a hotel. So those are days that

residents paid for out-of-pocket but they were

following the rules of government. And I know

I'm going on a lot, and I could go on more, Mr.

Speaker, but I'll leave it there.

Why will the government not repay these costs

for our accommodations? Why will the

government not repay these costs for airfare for

residents? Thank you.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. It's going to be a little bit of a

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6435

longwinded answer. There was a whole bunch

of information shared there that seemed to be

messy. First of all, let's talk about the line-up.

Yes, it was long. We understood that. There

was planes. They were trying to get our crews

in there. But the second day, as people -- we

had people get on the planes that were told to

go back home the first day. The second day

they got onto the plane. They were able to do

that. We had people registering and getting on

the planes that way there.

In regards to the question that the Member

asked -- there was a couple questions but -- I

think there was three, but I will focus on her last

one. It was about the Red Cross. I've heard that

from other people. I've heard where people got

into the host community, Red Cross didn't have

them or told them to go find their own, to phone

back. So what I'm telling people is to reach back

out to us, to get back to us, tell us what

happened, and then we will work on that.

Because we've had that situation just not in

Grande Prairie, we've heard it in Edmonton,

we've heard it in other places there. So we're

asking people to reach out to us, and we will

work on that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker. So what I heard there is that if

somebody has registered with the Red Cross

and they still had to pay for their own hotel that

they can come back to the Department of

Municipal and Community Affairs and seek

compensation for the cost of those hotels. And

I'm wondering if the Minister can please let me

know if I'm right on that, and also who they

would contact in order to get that done. Thank

you.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Yes, that's

correct. The second thing is who to contact,

reach out to the department, or give it to

yourself as the MLA, reach out to them and then

work with us. I can tell you the Member has

given me a number of emails, and we've been

working on those situations. So please get us

those emails because we need to get -- fix this

because it was unfortunate that situation

happened. We have to rely on our host

province, and that's what they did. Some of

them had Red Cross to help them there, and

they were working on it. So, again, if we missed

those things -- and we're going to miss some of

those things. Please reach out to us, and we'll

work on it. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Final

supplementary. Member for Kam Lake.

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker. So that's great news. That's very good

news. So anybody in the territory who was

registered with the Red Cross, was unable to

get a hotel for whatever reason, reach out to

your MLA, and we can advocate on your behalf.

So that's really good news.

Mr. Speaker, the last question I have is in

regards to insurance deductibles. A number of

residents quickly learned that insurance

policies are not all built the same. Some

residents had insurance deductibles waived.

Whereas others had significant, significant,

insurance deductibles that they had to pay in

order to receive any support from their

insurance companies. And so I'm wondering if

MACA plans to apply for reimbursement of

resident deductibles through the DFAA. Thank

you.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. She's probably not going to like

answer. Unfortunately, when people have their

insurance, that's the program that they have to

do and they have to look into it. Unfortunately, I

have insurance and I haven't even looked at

mine until after what we've been dealing with.

So unfortunately, the disaster financial

assistance is last resort. If you have insurance,

you need to go to your insurance company. And

I am sorry to the residents that have higher

deductibles or don't have the same supports,

it's unfortunate, but that's the insurance

companies that you have to deal with. Thank

you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Oral

questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

ORAL QUESTION 1577-19(2):

EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT SUPPORTS

DURING WILDFIRES

MR. EDJERICON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, communities are dealing with the

unprecedented wildfire crisis gave a lot to the

efforts to save their homes, residents, and

municipalities, and property. Mr. Speaker, my

questions are going to be the Minister Shane

Thompson, Environment and Climate Change.

Mr. Speaker, what has been done to recognize

the sacrifices made by the communities under

evacuation order and the frontline workers who

stayed to fight the fire? Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Tu

Nedhe-Wiilideh. Minister responsible for

Environment and Climate Change.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Yes, it's more of a

Municipal and Community Affairs question. So

we do have a hosting grant available to

communities. We have identified communities

as evacuation centres, like Fort Simpson was

Page 6436 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

for Kakisa and Jean Marie. The reason we

identify these evacuation centres is so that we

don't burden the community on there, so. But

we've noticed that some of the communities

have been working or getting evacuees into the

communities. So we did establish a hosting

grant, and the communities can apply for the

hosting grants on that there. In regards to if he's

looking for equipment and that, we are working

with the communities on those things as we

move forward. Thank you.

MR. EDJERICON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, this fire that happened that

impacted the residents of the Northwest

Territories, including Yellowknife and the

smaller communities, in particular Lutselk'e,

Dettah, N'dilo, and Fort Resolution, you know,

when this evacuation order went ahead, we had

evacuees that came to Fort Resolution, that

over 105 people there showed up to that

community that came in from Fort Smith, Hay

River Reserve, Fort Smith Reserve as well, and

Yellowknife. So, Mr. Speaker, we -- the

communities of Fort Resolution have incurred

costs as a result of the additional people

coming into the community on

accommodations, food security, etcetera. Mr.

Speaker, the cost involved with an emergency

operation are enormous. The community

governments I represent do not have deep

pockets. How will the Minister ensure the costs

related to the wildfire are not disproportionately

placed on municipalities and designated

authorities? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. So, Mr. Speaker, like I said, we do

have a hosting grant that's up to $40,000.

We -- again, that's why we're telling people with

evacuation centres there are certain

communities that are host friendly and those

ones that aren't. We understand that we seen

people go into communities, so we provided

that. We did -- our superintendent reached out

to Fort Res, worked with them. We also had the

food security with ITI working with them to see

if we needed to do those things. So I can also

tell you that I've reached out to the federal

government, Indigenous Service Canada,

talked about designated authorities and how

they're being impacted. These are some of the

challenges that we're seeing that we need to

get fixed up on. So if it's a designated authority,

if they're created by the Indian Act, then we're

trying to get the funding for them to help us

move forward. So we've reached out to

Indigenous Service Canada on that, but we

are -- and, again, we did set up a hosting grant

this fiscal year because of the situations where

people were going to hub communities that

were not hosting. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. EDJERICON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The $40,000 grants is just not going to be

enough. For our community of Fort Resolution,

you know, that community council and the Metis

council paid out monies to their evacuees,

some -- that all from -- are all scattered across

Canada. And also in YKDFN, they spent a lot of

money out of their IBAs that they want to see

back, and also the community of Lutselk'e. Not

including the work that they have done to fire

smart the community as the fire would start to

happen. They incurred a lot of costs to date.

And, Mr. Speaker, they want to see some kind

of monies back to their communities. So it's

clear we need to improve on our emergency

preparedness on both the territorial and local

levels. What is the Minister doing to ensure we

are better prepared for the next fire that might

happen maybe in my region probably next

year? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. So two departments, Municipal and

Community Affairs and ECC, are doing an after-

action review. So that's part one. We are

reaching out to the municipalities, working to

see that there. We're also setting up training

events. We're looking if there are -- the

emergency plan, how it worked, where we can

improve on it, set up training, tabletop exercises

so people are better prepared on that. We're

also working with ECC to come in and work with

the communities on their fire smarting -- or their

fire smart to the communities. But also when

the Member talks about, you know, fire breaks

and stuff like that, NWTAC got over $20 million

for eight years and communities can work on

there. My understanding is the funding doesn't

get there next -- until next year, but people that

spent money on fire breaks and that, they can

hold that this year, and then bring it -- and bring

forth those expenses for next year as eligible

expenses. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Final

supplementary. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

MR. EDJERICON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I've reached out to the Indigenous

governments and Dettah and N'dilo, Lutselk'e,

and Fort Resolution. I've asked them to provide

a letter to me on the costs that they incurred as

a result of this fire evacuation that happened.

And once I get that information, I will forward it

to the Minister to let them know that what we

incurred in the communities as a result of the

trigger being pulled in this evacuation here in

the Northwest Territories.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, also, you know,

the emergency plans for the communities need

to happen. Right now, I've approached the

Minister about trying to get something going in

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6437

Fort Resolution because of the fire near Hay

River. Also, the community of Lutselk'e, they

also need a plan and we need help on that area.

So if we don't start fire smarting our

communities even this fall, then we're going to

have the same problems maybe as early as

springtime. Where the fire could be next year.

So I guess my question to the Minister is that

what can we do to work with the communities

to make sure that we have adequate resources

provided so that they can make decisions and

start fire smarting the communities even as

early as this fall? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Tu

Nedhe-Wiilideh. Minister responsible for

MACA.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I guess first and

foremost, each community should have their

own emergency management operation plan.

They should have it in place. And if they don't,

we as the regional -- our regional staff will be in

there working with them. We created five new

positions for emergency management.

So -- that we can help work with them. One of

the after-action review things is that I'm looking

at -- we need at least another five more

positions at the regional level to do the recovery

and work with these communities. So that's part

of the conversation that we're having.

In regards to fire breaks and fire smarting the

communities, as I said, last -- with the last

question is NWTAC has money. Each

community of the 29 communities have money

that they can access through NWTAC.

Unfortunately, the money that NWTAC got,

they don't get it until next year from the federal

government. But what they have said, and they

have worked with the federal government, that

they can do the work that needs to be done

now. If they want to do -- fire smart the

community and reach out to the community -- or

NWTAC to see what their share is, what they

get from that, and then they can do the work this

year and then as of April 1st can then give the

invoice to NWTAC and they get reimbursed

back that way. So we're all working together for

this. And as, again, we are doing an after-action

review with MACA and ECC. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Oral

questions. Member for Monfwi.

ORAL QUESTION 1578-19(2):

FIRE MANAGEMENT POLICY EFFECT ON

INDIGENOUS CULTURE

MS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Thank you,

Mr. Speaker. Minister Thompson, this is for the

ECC department.

Minister Thompson, has the department, ECC,

ever considered the impact the existing fire

management policy is going to have on our

Indigenous language, culture, and way of life?

Did the ECC -- I mean, I'm just saying, what I'm

trying to say here is that has the department

considered the impact the existing fire

management policy is having on Indigenous

language, culture, and way of life?

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for

Monfwi. Before we continue, Members, please

refrain from using names. Just use the Minister

or Members' ridings or department they're in

charge of. Minister responsible for Environment

and Climate Change.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you very

much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we take that

into account. We have -- our fire crews are very

much Indigenous. We work with them. The fire

crews and people we brought back were

Indigenous. These people have been in the

system for 20, 30 years or 40 years, and we've

worked with them. I've had conversations with

them. We've had -- that they talk about it. In the

old days where people would use to -- like,

burning was part of the ecology of the

landscape. It would then help them regrowth

and stuff like that. The problem is if we don't do

those things, we get these tinder boxes that

are -- that go on forever. And what we've seen

in Hay River and that fire that went from Kakisa

into Hay River was a tinder box. Within four

hours that fire travelled. So these are all these

things. We work with Indigenous governments.

We have those conversations. And I'm very

proud that ECC does have those conversations

and the people that we bring back are of

Indigenous heritage. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Oral

questions. Member for Monfwi.

MS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Mr. Speaker,

the reason why I ask is that anyone who lived

and spends time in small communities, they

would understand what we're talking about

because Indigenous people, they have close

connection to the land. You know, we -- it

provides and sustain us. And even you, you

understand that. Now we use the land for

healing. That is the reason why I ask that

question, is because we have close connection

to the land.

But anyways, Mr. Speaker, the GNWT says it

will take seven years for burned land to

naturally replenish itself. Does that mean it will

take seven years for any lost wildlife to also

Page 6438 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

replenish their numbers given the state of our

dwindling caribou herds across the NWT and

considering that several caribou herds' habitats

have been disrupted this year and in years past,

does the GNWT calculate how many caribou

and other wildlife are lost annually due to

wildfire? How many years for caribou herds to

grow back? Thank you.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there was two or three

questions in there so I will try to answer which

ones they are.

Do we -- if it's seven years, does it have the

impact on wildlife? I'd have to get back to the

Member on that. I don't know that detail. I don't

get into that detail. I understand the importance

of fire and what it does to the environment. It's

part of the regrowth. It has happened in the

past. It used to be part of it, the way of life. I was

actually talking to an advisor, an elder who lives

on the land, and we talked about, you know, the

importance of fire and what it did. And he talked

to me about in the old days they used to find

areas that were really dry and that and they

would burn it so it would be regrowth and that.

So we do look into those things. And if the

habitat on the caribou, it is an asset, a value.

So it's a value to us. We look at that. We try to

fight the fires there as best we can because

caribou are important, so is their environment.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Mr. Speaker,

thank you. Since 2009, we have caribou

restriction in place and our people need to know

because we do rely on caribou. That's why I'm

asking. And this is where they failed to work

closely with the traditional knowledge. We do

need those people. ECC needs to have to be

working with the Indigenous government and

traditional knowledge keeper so that they can

be informed of what is happening with our

caribou, and we do rely on that. So that's why I

asked.

And, Mr. Speaker, okay, this is another

question that I don't mean to be disrespectful in

a time like this, okay. And I know it's too early

to ask. And I don't know if MACA can answer

me this or Minister of finance. And I want to

know how much money have we spent to

evacuations, and if all this money was spent to

fire breakers, just like my colleague said here,

knowing it is going to be dry season with less

precipitation, we did -- we did not need to

evacuate and respond to the fire as it

started -- respond to the fire as it started. Thank

you.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you. I'm

going to answer the caribou question. The other

one is a different one, and I'll just go on to that

later, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in regards to

the caribou, the traditional knowledge, we work

with our Indigenous governments about

caribou. We talk about that. We talk about how

we protect it. We talk about the environment.

We see where the area is that we need to

protect. What we need to do is make sure our

caribou survives for generations to come. So

it's just not now. Yes, we have had the mobile

zone, but that there was what we worked with

the Indigenous governments on there. In

regards to the complexity of the questions

about how much money is spent and that, we're

going to have to take that as notice because we

still don't have that information, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. A final

short supplementary. Member for Monfwi.

MS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Thank you.

Yeah, with the climate change here now --

MR. SPEAKER: -- sorry, the Minister took that

on notice. Yes, I know, but it's taken as notice.

So moving on, oral questions. Member for

Yellowknife North.

ORAL QUESTION 1579-19(2):

GOVERNMENT OF THE NORTHWEST

TERRITORIES’ DECLARATION OF STATE

OF EMERGENCY

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd

like to thank my colleague from Frame Lake

and the Minister for MACA for answering the

questions. And I look forward to an after-action

review, and I'm happy to hear that the public's

involved. Although I just have a few clarifying

questions on why exactly the city of Yellowknife

evacuation order was issued by the GNWT and

what exactly occurred in that very rapid 24-hour

period there. So my first question is for the

Minister of MACA. Can he explain why all the

other communities were community evacuation

orders, but the capital region was done by the

GNWT, why that was the case? Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for

Yellowknife North. Minister responsible for

MACA.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is probably going to

be a little bit of a longer answer, and I apologize

to the House, but we need to get the information

out there.

The GNWT used the territorial state of

emergency. The decision was based on a

combination of multiple factors and not one

factor. They included starting in May, the NWT

had already experienced multiple community

evacuations. In one week alone, just before

Yellowknife evacuation orders had been

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6439

issued, Enterprise, Fort Smith, Hay River, Jean

Marie, K'atlodeeche First Nation had also

learned -- been evacuated and we've also seen

the devastation that happened in Enterprise.

Very aggressive and unpredicted wildfire

behaviour near Yellowknife area was causing

significant concerns to certain -- to very

knowledgeable firefighters. Previous wildfires

had, in fact, critical infrastructure like the fibre

optic link, highways, impacted communications

and transit corridors. The fire break that was

here around Yellowknife today were not in

place when those evacuation orders were

issued. There were potentially risk to the

highway and airport given the current fire

conditions. There were many factors that led to

Yellowknife evacuations but, ultimately, the

right decision was made. Given the same

information that I had today from -- or when we

did it, I'd do it again twice on Sunday, Mr.

Speaker. The city is right from their perspective.

The NWT health and social services is right

from their perspective. But the GNWT had

considered all perspectives. The fire conditions,

one road, one airport, system capacity,

etcetera. Conversations about what was said

are largely irrelevant because of how quickly

the situation changed from Sunday to

Thursday, the day before the Yellowknife

evacuation. But the city did formally ask for

assistance with its shelter in place and a

scenario for a city evacuation on the 15th, the

day before the evacuation order was issued.

Mr. Speaker, NWTHSSA was focusing on the

hospital. They had patients there. They had

long-term patients. They also had 60 evacuees

from Hay River in Fort Smith that they had to

get out there. So to do a shelter in place and to

set up an evacuation centre, they would not be

able to do that. So when the city came to us, we

sat there and looked at everything. We looked

at every avenue, what the situation was

happening, and we made the decision that we

had the time to evacuate the community, we'd

give the 48 hours to get the community out

because the fire was coming. 15 and 11. 85

was burning as well. These situations were

occurring. If 15 and 11 connected, that highway

would have been closed off. Then we would

have problems with the air quality in for our

residents. We'd also have the problem of

getting -- to use the airport because we were

seeing it, and the predictions were that

Saturday it was going to hit, and we were going

to see all the problems there. So that's why the

decision was made moving forward. Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I

appreciate that answer. And, you know, I

appreciate the Minister made the decision, and

he stands by it. I guess I'm still a little confused

about the jurisdictional question. You know,

Hay River has issued multiple evacuations in

the last couple years and it's always the town of

Hay River. And there is an understanding that's

who does it. I don't believe we would ever step

in front and evacuate their town without them

doing that first, but that's what occurred in

Yellowknife. And I'm just wondering, you know,

god forbid we ever have an evacuation, whose

call is it at the end of the day and is there a

reason that the exception was made in

Yellowknife?

For all the reasons the Minister just said, it

seems to me he could have gone to the mayor,

I'm asking you to issue an evacuation order.

That's the chain of how we did this everywhere

else. So I'm just -- is going forward, that's what

we would do, or is it when we evacuate the

capital, it's a GNWT decision; is that the current

process? Thank you.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first and foremost, it's

the community. Hay River evacuated that. They

called evacuation. What happened there, we

declared a state of emergency. We declared a

state of emergency not because of just

Yellowknife. We had Inuvik being threatened.

We had Kakisa. We had Jean Marie. We

evacuated Hay River, Fort Smith, and

K'atlodeeche First Nation, Enterprise. We were

seeing -- we're not like Alberta. We don't have

all these aircrafts that we needed and we were

sitting there seeing that we needed to get these

aircrafts to be able to do that. Part of the

evacuation order -- or the state of emergency

was to be able for us to get the tools that we

needed. So we were able to declare the state

of emergency. Then we looked at it. At TEMO,

we brought in the federal government. So the

process, it starts out local, goes right to the

territories, and then we look at the federal or

ask our counterparts across the country to work

with us. We had a situation where we had the

military in with us. We had a situation where we

were looking at sheltering in place. That wasn't

a viable option. So at that point in time, we

declared with the state of emergency. Hay

River, Fort Smith, K'atlodeeche, we were not

under a state of emergency at that point in time.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Oral

questions. Member for Yellowknife North. Oral

questions. Member for Hay River South.

ORAL QUESTION 1580-19(2):

FIRE STRUCTURAL DAMAGE CLAIMS

MR. ROCKY SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. These questions are for the Minister

of ECC. I'd ask the Minister have any assessors

Page 6440 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

visited the communities that had structural

damage to assess those damages as of today.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Hay

River South. Minister responsible for

Environment and Climate Change.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: That would be

Municipal and Community Affairs. But, yes, so

we've had assessors come into Behchoko.

We've had assessors -- or we still have

assessors in Enterprise. And then we would

then be -- once we've done Enterprise, we

would go on to Paradise Gardens that were

impacted, those homes there, and then also

Patterson. So we do have the assessors in

there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. ROCKY SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Once the assessors do their job and

the information is gathered, who will be

responsible for working with those businesses

and persons who had structure and equipment

damage by the fire? Will it be Pathfinders; who

will it be? Thank you.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you. I think

the Member answered his question. He's

correct. But it did depends. If it's -- it's an

insurance company it's with the insurance

company. If it's -- they don't have insurance, it

would be with the Pathfinder. And we are

looking at trying to get a Pathfinder strictly for

Enterprise because what we found is having

Pathfinders specifically in the communities that

were impacted seemed to be working better

than not. So we are looking at getting a

Pathfinder for -- specifically for Enterprise.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. ROCKY SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, considering that, you

know, we still have, I think, 22 files left over from

the flood that -- you know, that haven't been

completed, haven't even started to be actioned

yet, and we do have, I think, three Pathfinders

in Hay River, and I'm not sure what we have for

staff here, but now with the fires and the

magnitude of, you know, what happened in the

South Slave, will there be additional staff added

in the South Slave to help people, you know,

deal with their claims? Thank you.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. So right now we're adding an

additional one right now. But as we see fit, if

there's more -- if the damages we're seeing, we

need more Pathfinders and then we will look

into that. Right now, we feel we have enough

Pathfinders right now, whether it's here in the

city or in Hay River, part of that team. But we

are adding an additional one right now to help

with that Enterprise file. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Final

supplementary. Member for Hay River South.

MR. ROCKY SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there seems to be some

confusion, or there has been anyway right from

the start with Pathfinders in place, as to who

was actually making decisions to either

approve or decline applications. You know, I

think that's very important so that when people

are going to see a Pathfinder, you know,

sometimes they think the Pathfinder is the one

who might be approving an application, but I

don't -- my sense is that they're -- it's not them.

So I'd like -- I'd ask the Minister to provide, I

guess, maybe with a flow chart of the process

of who is responsible for the different aspects

of the application as it goes from -- from when

it gets taken in to when it's finally approved.

Thank you.

HON. SHANE THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr.

Speaker. I don't know if he's asking me to

provide one or to talk about it now. So the

Member is asking me to provide a flow chart;

yeah, we will work on that. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Oral

questions. Colleagues, our time for oral

questions has expired. Written questions.

Returns to written questions. Mr. Clerk.

Returns to Written Questions

RETURN TO WRITTEN QUESTION 65-19(2):

PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP

PROJECTS CAPITAL AND OPERATING

COSTS AND REVENUES

CLERK OF THE HOUSE (Mr. Rutland): Thank

you, Mr. Speaker. I have a Return to Written

Question 65-19(2) asked by the Member for

Frame Lake on May 25th, 2023, regarding

Public-Private Partnership Projects Capital and

Operating Costs and Revenues.

Over the past ten years the Government of the

Northwest Territories has taken part in three.

Public-Private Partnership, or P3, projects

which include the construction of the

Mackenzie Valley Fibre Link, the renewal of the

Stanton Territorial Hospital and recently the

completion of the Tlicho All-Season Road.

The Mackenzie Valley Fibre Link project

involved the construction of a fibre optic line

connecting from McGill Lake to the community

of Inuvik to extend the delivery of high-speed

broadband connectivity to several communities

along the Mackenzie Valley. Construction of the

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6441

project was completed in partnership with

Northern Lights General Partnership and was

fully operational in June 2017.

A renewal of the Stanton Territorial Hospital

was also completed as a P3 project in

partnership with Boreal Health Partnership. The

project was initiated to address the aging

building systems in the former Stanton Hospital

building and provide upgraded facilities to

ensure that effective services could be provided

to residents of the Northwest Territories.

Patient services delivered in the newly

constructed hospital commenced on May 26,

2019.

The most recent P3 project to be completed is

the Tlicho All-Season Road which opened

officially on November 30, 2021. The

Government of the Northwest Territories

worked with North STAR Infrastructure to

extend an all-season road 97 km from Highway

No. 3 to the community of Whati. Completion of

this project allowed for greater year-round

access to Whati which had formerly only been

accessible via winter road or air travel.

The Member had requested the original

projected capital and operations costs and

associated revenues for all P3 projects that

have occurred over the past ten years. The

projected costs for each project are as follows:

• For the Mackenzie Valley Fibre Link the

projected capital cost was $91 million and

the projected operating cost was $85.6

million over the life of the project

agreement, a debt servicing cost, which

includes principal and interest costs of

$147.8 million and $124.6 million was

expected in revenues.

• The capital projection for the Stanton

Renewal project was $350 million, the

projected operating expenditures were

$326.4 million and the debt servicing costs

were projected at $270.7 million.

• In relation to the Tlicho All-Season Road a

total of $215.33 million was projected in

capital costs along with $149.6 million

projected for operating costs over the life

cycle of the project agreement and $152.3

million for debt servicing costs.

The Member also requested the actual

expenditure and revenue totals for each of the

last ten fiscal years for these projects.

Actual capital expenditures for the Mackenzie

Valley Fibre Link over the past ten years were

as follows:

• $69.142 million in 2015-16;

• $25.894 million in 2016-17;

• $3.28 million in 2017-18.

Actual operating expenditures for the

Mackenzie Valley Fibre Link were:

• $1.212 million in 2016-17;

• $2.861 million in 2017-18;

• $3.418 million in 2018-19;

• $3.445 million in 2019-20;

• $3.541 million in 2020-21;

• $3.473 million in 2021-22; and

• $5.172 million in 2022-23.

The actual debt servicing costs related to the

fibre link over the ten-year period were:

• $9 million in 2017-18;

• $7.4 million in 2018-19;

• $7.5 million in 2019-20;

• $7.4 million in 2020-21;

• $7.6 million in 2021-22; and

• $7.4 million in 2022-23.

Revenue generated by the fibre link over the

requested period was:

• $232 thousand in 2016-17;

• $756 thousand in 2017-18;

• $1.184 million in 2018-19;

• $1.461 million in 2019-20;

• $1.457 million in 2020-21;

• $1.844 million in 2021-22; and

• $2.073 million in 2022-23.

Capital expenditures occurring over the past

ten years related to the Stanton Territorial.

Hospital Renewal project totaled:

• $4.153 million in 2014-15;

• $36.632 million in 2015-16;

• $105.393 million in 2016-17;

• $92.556 million in 2017-18;

• $80.331 million in 2018-19; and

• $3.924 million in 2019-20.

Page 6442 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

Operating costs over the same time frame for

the hospital included:

• $2.924 million in 2018-19;

• $6.764 million in 2019-20;

• $7.704 million in 2020-21;

• $9.64 million in 2021-22; and

• $11.512 million in 2022-23.

Costs related to the servicing of debt for the

Stanton Renewal project over the ten-year

period were:

• $2.9 million in 2018-19;

• $10.3 million in 2019-20;

• $10.4 million in 2020-21;

• $10.325 million in 2021-22; and

• $10.258 million in 2022-23.

Construction of the Tlicho All-Season Road

resulted in the following capital expenditures:

• $7.232 million in 2017-18;

• $24.917 million in 2018-19;

• $45.357 million in 2020-21;

• $41.167 million in 2021-22; and

• $1.604 million in 2022-23.

Operating costs associated with the road were:

• $3.87 million in 2021-22; and

• $5.304 million in 2022-23.

Additionally debt servicing costs for the road

over the past ten years totaled:

• $1 million in 2021-22; and

• $6.1 million in 2022-23.

As a percentage of the Capital and Operational

budgets presented in the main estimates and

capital estimates during the past ten years

costs for these projects represented the

following percentages of the budgets. I would

like to note that I will be providing the

percentage of the capital costs as a total of the

overall project budget as some expenditures

were recorded in specific fiscal years as a result

of substantial completion check points.

Capital costs for the Mackenzie Valley Fibre

Link accounted for 139 percent of the original

P3 budget largely due to additional capital costs

that were agreed upon between the

Government of the Northwest Territories and

the project partner after the completion of the

project and for which a supplementary

appropriation was approved in 2022-23.

Operating and debt servicing costs accounted

for the following percentages in each fiscal

year:

• 17.3 percent in 2016-17;

• 84.8 percent in 2017-18;

• 77.34 percent in 2018-19;

• 77.53 percent in 2019-20;

• 78.22 percent in 2020-21;

• 79.16 percent in 2021-22; and

• 96.49 percent in 2022-23.

Revenue generated by the Mackenzie Valley

Fibre Link over the past ten years as a

percentage of the allocated budget was:

• No revenue budgeted in 2016-17;

• 64 percent in 2017-18;

• 152 percent in 2018-19;

• 122 percent in 2019-20;

• 121 percent in 2020-21;

• 154 percent in 2021-22; and

• 122 percent in 2022-23.

Capital expenditures on the Stanton Renewal

Project accounted for 92 percent of the original

budget.

Operating and debt servicing costs accounted

for the following percentages in each fiscal

year:

• 32 percent in 2018-19;

• 93 percent in 2019-20;

• 99 percent in 2020-21;

• 109 percent in 2021-22; and

• 119 percent in 2022-23.

The percentage of actual capital expenditures

related to the Tlicho All-Season Road in respect

to the budget was 98 percent.

The operating and debt servicing costs

accounted for:

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6443

• 271 percent in 2021-22, this was due to the

projected commencement date reflected in

the original model; and

• 81 percent in 2022-23.

Prior to the decision to enter into any P3

agreement a series of analysis is completed to

determine the financial, structural,

environmental and legal impacts on the territory

and the government with respect to the existing

infrastructure and service delivery along with

proper consultation with Indigenous

governments that may be impacted. There is

also a Public-Private Partnership Policy that

guides the government's use of P3 agreements

to complete large scale projects. While the

analytical documents are not publicly available

the policy documents are. An offer has also

been made to present the audit findings in

regards to the Stanton Renewal to standing

committee to provide greater understanding of

this project. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

RETURN TO WRITTEN QUESTION 66-19(2):

GOVERNMENT OF THE NORTHWEST

TERRITORIES INTERVENTION

CHALLENGING FEDERAL LAW C-92

Mr. Speaker, I have a Return to Written

Question No. 66-19(2) asked by the Member for

Great Slave on June. 1, 2023, regarding the

Government of the Northwest Territories', or

GNWT, intervention of Federal Bill C-92. I

appreciate the opportunity to provide further

context and clarification on this important

matter.

The Member inquired about the legal basis and

rationale for the Government of the Northwest

Territories intervening in this case before the

Supreme Court of Canada.

It is important to note that while the Quebec

Court of Appeal has deemed the majority of the

federal act constitutional, it has identified

Sections 21 and 22(3) as being ultra vires of the

Constitution of Canada. It is precisely this

limited legal question that prompted the

Northwest Territories' intervention.

Sections 21 and 22(3) of the federal act grant

Indigenous law the same authority as federal

law and establish paramountcy of Indigenous

law over provincial and territorial laws in cases

of conflict. Our intervention seeks to bring to the

Supreme Court's attention the federal

government's failure to consider the

fundamental differences in jurisdiction and

power between territories and provinces.

The GNWT believes it is important for the

Supreme Court to fully understand the potential

unintended consequences stemming from the

federal act. These concerns include the

inadvertent alteration of the NWT's legislative

authority, ambiguity surrounding the scope and

application of Indigenous laws, and the creation

of a power imbalance between various

Indigenous laws enacted by Indigenous

governments in the NWT. Such impacts could

lead to a situation where Indigenous laws not

only supersede conflicting aspects of NWT

laws, but also potentially replace them as

federal laws, even in the absence of any

conflict.

The Member also inquired how the GNWT

justifies its intervention in this matter

considering our support of the Inuvialuit

Regional Corporation's child welfare law.

While it may appear that our intervention and

support for the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation's

child welfare law are contradictory, the Attorney

General intervened in the Supreme Court of

Canada case, not to argue against the inherent

right of self-government over child and family

services, but to provide the court necessary

context as to how the federal act impacts the

territories differently than the provinces.

Our intervention in the Supreme Court case is

driven by our responsibility to uphold the

jurisdictional and legislative autonomy for the

Northwest Territories. While the GNWT

supports the recognition of Indigenous rights,

concerns were raised with the mechanics of the

federal act. The concerns stem from the lack of

clarity on how Indigenous laws are meant to

interact with laws made under the jurisdictions

provided through another federal act, the

Northwest Territories Act. This is where the

NWT's concerns and perspectives were

different from the interventions made by

Attorneys General from the provinces.

Regardless of the decision to come from the

Supreme Court of Canada, the GNWT has

continued to work with the Inuvialuit Regional

Corporation on the implementation of their law

to the greatest extent possible. The Inuvialuit

Regional Corporation’s child welfare law

reflects the unique needs and aspirations of

their community, and our support is grounded

in the principles of self-determination and

recognition of Indigenous jurisdiction within the

NWT.

The Member has also asked what direct

engagement and consultations the GNWT

undertook with the Inuvialuit Regional

Corporation, or other Indigenous governments,

prior to making the decision to intervene.

The GNWT recognizes the importance of

engaging and consulting with Indigenous

governments and organizations in matters that

Page 6444 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

affect their jurisdictions and interests. In the

case the Attorney General has sole

responsibility that is independent from the rest

of the GNWT in regard to legal matters and the

decision to intervene.

Additionally, the Member noted the frustration

and disappointment by both the Inuvialuit

Regional Corporation and federal government

with the GNWT's intervention. The Member

asked about the steps taken to engage with the

Inuvialuit Regional Corporation and Canada on

the position taken by the government.

The Government of Canada specifically

recognized the NWT's position in support of the

inherent right to self-government in its written

submissions when it referenced that the NWT

recognized the validity of section 18 of the

federal act.

Lastly, the Member questioned how the GNWT

reconciles its intervention in this case with the

commitment to implementing the United

Nations Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples, specifically Articles 21 and

22.

The GNWT fully acknowledges and embraces

the principles enshrined in the UN Declaration,

including the rights of Indigenous peoples to

self-determination, autonomy, and the

preservation of their distinct legal systems. We

are committed to upholding these principles

and implementing them in a manner that

respects and protects the rights and interests of

Indigenous peoples in the NWT.

Regarding our intervention in this specific case,

the GNWT spoke in support of the inherent right

to self-government and that it includes child and

family services. Our focus, however, is on the

constitutional implications of sections 21 and

22(3) of the act, which undermine the

jurisdictional and legislative authority of the

GNWT.

Our intervention is driven by the necessity to

safeguard the autonomy and jurisdictional

rights of the NWT, while ensuring that the rights

of Indigenous peoples are respected and

upheld within the framework of Canadian law. It

is essential to recognize that our intervention

does not contradict or undermine our

commitment to implementing the UN

Declaration.

We are actively working in partnership with

Indigenous governments, organizations, and

stakeholders in implementing the UN

Declaration in the Territory, which includes

advancing Bill 85: United Nations Declaration

on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples

Implementation Act, currently before the

Legislative Assembly. Our approach centers

around open dialogue, engagement, and

consensus-building to ensure that the

implementation approach aligns with the

diverse needs and aspirations of Indigenous

communities.

Articles 21 and 22 of the UN Declaration, which

emphasize the importance of Indigenous

peoples' self-determination, governance, and

legal systems, are integral to our commitment

to implementing the UN Declaration. We

recognize the significance of these articles and

their alignment with our broader objectives of

recognizing and respecting the jurisdictional

authority and self-determination of Indigenous

peoples in the NWT. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

RETURN TO WRITTEN QUESTION 67-19(2):

UNRESOLVED MATTER OF THE FEDERAL

INDIAN DAY SCHOOLS

Mr. Speaker, I have a Return to Written

Question No. 67-19(2) asked by the Member for

Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh on June 1st, 2023,

regarding unresolved matters of Federal Indian

Day Schools. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Member stated that on April 1, 1969, the

Roman Catholic and Anglican churches.

Relinquished control of the Federal Indian Day

schools and transferred the program to the

Northwest Territories. There were 29 Federal

Indian Day schools in the NWT where

Indigenous children and youth were subjected

to physical, emotional, and sexual abuse and

cultural genocide. The Member asked if the

Premier can provide in detail the steps the

Government of the Northwest Territories has

taken to formally acknowledge and document

these abuses.

The GNWT has compiled a complete history of

schools, residences, and other western

educational institutions in the NWT in its

publication, Report on the History of NWT

Educational Facilities. The GNWT will continue

to engage with Indigenous governments and

communities to learn more about how they

choose to proceed with the investigation of this

still-upsetting chapter in their past and how they

believe the GNWT can assist them.

The Member stated that survivors want an

opportunity to share their experiences and

stories and preserve these for historical

records. The Member asked if the Premier can

describe in detail what the GNWT has done to

set up a commission to listen to these

experiences and stories, and establish an

archive for on-going learning and research,

similar to the Truth and Reconciliation

Commission of Canada.

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6445

The GNWT remains open to engagement with

Indigenous governments and communities to

formulate an acceptable approach to manage

this difficult part of their history. The GNWT

continues to collaborate with the Indigenous

leadership as a Member of the Council of

Leaders and is dedicated to offering help

however it can.

The Member stated that the Prime Minister of

Canada and the Pope formally apologized to

residential school survivors and acknowledged

the inter-generational damage caused by

residential schools. The Member asked what

the rationale is for the Premier not apologizing

for the GNWT's role in its abuses and cultural

genocide of Indigenous children and youth with

Federal Indian Day schools.

There is still more work to be done in order to

address reconciliation in the Northwest

Territories, but we are making progress.

Although the journey will be lengthy and

occasionally challenging, we are dedicated to

seeing it through.

The Member also asked what position would

the GNWT take on a class action lawsuit

brought forward by survivors of the federal

Indian Day Schools.

The GNWT recognizes that class action

approval has been filed this year for a lawsuit

against the Government of Manitoba as one of

the respondents by former residential school

students. The GNWT also recognizes the 2006

Indian Residential Schools Settlement

Agreement, the 2019 Federal Indian Day

School Class Action Settlement as well as the

Indian Residential Schools Day Scholars

Settlement of 2021.

While these lawsuits and settlements

recognized the damage caused by residential

schools, the agreements desired a fair,

comprehensive, and lasting resolution of the

legacy of these schools by compensating the

survivors and their descendants. The GNWT

reaffirms its dedication to work with the

Indigenous leadership and offer assistance to

its Members. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Returns

to written questions.

Colleagues, we will take a short recess.

---SHORT RECESS

MR. SPEAKER: Replies to Commissioner's

address. Petitions. Reports of committees on

the review of the bills.

Reports of Committees on the Review

of Bills

BILL 65:

BUILDERS’ LIEN ACT

MS. CLEVELAND: Mr. Speaker, your

committee would like to report on its

consideration of Bill 65, Builders' Lien Act.

Bill 65 received second reading in the

Legislative Assembly on November 3rd, 2022,

and was referred to the Standing Committee on

Social Development for review. On January

18th, 2023, the standing committee held a

public hearing with the Minister of Justice. At

the public hearing, the Minister made a

commitment to conduct further engagement

with the public. Following this, committee

sought an extension of the review period under

Rule 8.3(2). Over the next several months,

committee engaged extensively with the

department to consider several potential

amendments. Committee acknowledges

significant progress was made but could not

agree on a path forward on several key areas

of this bill.

Mr. Speaker, on June 29th, 2023, committee

held a clause by clause with the Minister at

which time committee passed a motion to report

the bill as not ready to proceed. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam

Lake. Reports of committees on the review of

bills. Member for Deh Cho.

BILL 74:

FOREST ACT

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Your committee would like to report on its

consideration of Bill 74, Forest Act.

Bill 74 is unique because it is the first bill to be

developed collaboratively with the Indigenous

governments and co-management bodies. That

means the bill is also the first legislation to be

reviewed under the process convention for the

introduction, consideration, and enactment of

bills drafted pursuant to the intergovernmental

council legislative development protocol.

Bill 74 received second reading in the

Legislative Assembly on March 9, 2023, and

was referred to the Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment for

review. Also, on March 9, 2023, committee

received approval from the House to extend its

review of the bill from the standard 120 days to

180 days to allow for more collaboration with

Indigenous governments. The standing

committee held a public briefing on this bill with

Page 6446 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

the Minister of Environment and Climate

Change and an intergovernmental council

representative on April 28th, 2023. Following

that, committee held four public hearings

around the territory and received six written

submissions.

After careful consideration of feedback

received, committee negotiated numerous

motions with the departmental staff and the

Indigenous governments that were members of

the technical working group to amend Bill 74 to

address committee's concerns with the bill. The

clause-by-clause review of Bill 74 took place on

August 11th, 2023. Committee proposed 28

motions to amend the bill. The Minister

concurred with 22 of those motions.

Mr. Speaker, the committee reports that Bill 74,

forest Act, is ready for consideration in

Committee of the Whole as amended and

reprinted. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Deh

Cho. Reports of committees on the review of

bills. Member for Kam Lake.

BILL 75:

COUNCIL FOR WOMEN AND GENDER

DIVERSITY ACT

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, your committee would like to

report on its consideration of Bill 75, Council for

Women and Gender Diversity Act.

Bill 75 received second reading in the

Legislative Assembly on March 9th, 2023, and

was referred to the Standing Committee on

Social Development for review. On June 28th,

2023, the standing committee held a public

hearing with the Minister responsible for the

Status of Women. Also in attendance was the

board of the Status of Women Council of the

NWT. Committee received one written

submission from the Northern Mosaic Network.

Committee heard from stakeholders and was

concerned about:

• the need for collaboration among

stakeholder entities to advance gender

equality;

• lack of definitions of key terms;

• lack of preamble in the bill and concern that

the purpose of the bill falls short on

addressing key issues not limited to core

funding mechanisms enshrined in

legislation, appointment of council

members and diversity of board

representation

• finally, there was desire to retain the original

name of the act.

For these reasons, committee cannot support

the bill at this time.

On September 21st, 2023, committee held a

clause-by-clause review of the bill with the

Minister at which time committee passed a

motion to report the bill as not ready to proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam

Lake. Reports of Committees on the Review of

Bills. Member for Deh Cho.

BILL 78:

WASTE REDUCTION AND RESOURCE

RECOVERY ACT

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Your committee would like to report on its

consideration of Bill 78, Waste Reduction and

Resource Recovery Act.

Bill 78 received second reading in the

Legislative Assembly on March 29, 2023, and

was referred to the Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment for

review. On June 1st, 2023, the standing

committee held a public hearing of the bill with

the Minister of Environment and Climate

Change. Committee held a clause-by-clause

review of Bill 78 on July 5th, 2023. Committee

proposed five motions to amend Bill 78 and was

pleased that the Minister of Environment and

Climate Change concurred with all five. The

changes to Bill 78 were in regards to making

more information publicly available and

reinforcing the establishment of advisory

committees.

Mr. Speaker, the committee reports that Bill 78,

Waste Reduction and Resource Recovery Act,

is ready for consideration in Committee of the

Whole as amended and reprinted. Mahsi.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Deh

Cho. Reports of Committees on the Review of

Bills. Member for Great Slave.

BILL 80:

DENTAL HYGIENISTS PROFESSION

STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT

MS. NOKLEBY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your

committee would like to report on its

consideration of Bill 80, Dental Hygienists

Profession Statutes Amendment Act.

Bill 80, a Private Member's bill advanced by the

MLA for Kam Lake, received second reading in

the Legislative Assembly on March 30th, 2023,

and was referred to the Standing Committee on

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6447

Social Development for review. The standing

committee held a public hearing in Yellowknife

on May 12th, 2023. Committee heard from two

stakeholders and received two written

submissions on the bill. On August 3rd, 2023,

committee held a clause-by-clause review of

the bill with the sponsoring Member and moved

two motions to amend dates for implementing

the regulation of dental hygienists.

Mr. Speaker, the committee reports that Bill 80,

Dental Hygienists Profession Statues

Amendment Act, is ready for consideration in

Committee of the Whole as amended and

reprinted. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Great

Slave. Reports of Committees on the Review of

Bills. Member for Kam Lake.

BILL 81:

AN ACT TO AMEND THE EDUCATION ACT,

NO. 2

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, your committee would like to

report on its consideration of Bill 81, An Act to

Amend the Education Act, No. 2. Bill 81

received second reading in the Legislative

Assembly on March 30th, 2023, and was

referred to the Standing Committee on Social

Development for review. The standing

committee held a public hearing in Yellowknife

on May 31st, 2023. Committee then travelled to

Inuvik, Norman Wells, and Deline from June 6th

to the 9th, 2023, for further engagement on the

bill. Committee held a clause-by-clause review

of the bill with the Minister of Education, Culture

and Employment on August 15, 2023.

Mr. Speaker, the committee reports that Bill 81,

An Act to Amend the Education Act, No. 2, is

ready for consideration in Committee of the

Whole as amended and reprinted. Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam

Lake. Reports of Committees on the Review of

Bills. Member for Deh Cho.

BILL 84:

AN ACT TO AMEND THE NORTHWEST

TERRITORIES BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT

AND INVESTMENT CORPORATION ACT

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Your committee would like to report on its

consideration of Bill 84, An Act to Amend the

Northwest Territories Business Development

and Investment Corporation Act.

Bill 84 received second reading in the

Legislative Assembly on March 30th, 2023, and

was referred to the Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment for

review. Committee proceeded by distributing

stakeholder letters and holding a public hearing

in Yellowknife on May 10th, 2023, where

committee heard from members of the public

and from the Minister of Industry, Tourism and

Investment, alongside the chief executive

officer of the Business Development and

Investment Corporation. Committee had

concerns about the corporation's board

composition and developed an amendment to

address this. Through public engagement,

committee also heard concerns from

stakeholders about the rebranding efforts.

What committee found was a lack of clear

public information about the rebranding efforts

of the corporation. This, in combination with a

board that needs better representation of the

entire territory, led committee to its final

decision about the readiness of Bill 84 to

continue in the legislative process.

Mr. Speaker, committee reports that Bill 84, An

Act to Amend the Northwest Territories

Business Development and Investment

Corporation Act, is not ready for consideration

in Committee of the Whole. Mahsi.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Deh

Cho. Reports of Committees on the Review of

Bills. Member for Yellowknife North.

BILL 85:

UNITED NATIONS DECLARATION ON THE

RIGHTS OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLES

IMPLEMENTATION ACT

MR. JOHNSON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your

committee would like to report on its

consideration of Bill 85, United Nations

Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous

Peoples Implementation Act.

Bill 85 received second reading in the

Legislative Assembly on March 30th, 2023, and

was referred to the Standing Committee on

Government Operations for review. On

September 20th, 2023, the committee held a

public hearing with the Minister of Executive

and Indigenous Affairs on this bill and

completed its clause-by-clause review.

Mr. Speaker, the committee reports that Bill 85,

United Nations Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples Implementation Act is

ready for consideration in Committee of the

Whole as amended and reprinted. Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for

Yellowknife North. Reports of Committees on

the Review of Bills. Member for Deh Cho.

Page 6448 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

BILL 93:

PRACTICE OF ENGINEERING,

GEOSCIENCE AND APPLIED SCIENCE

TECHNOLOGY ACT

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Your committee would like to report on its

consideration of Bill 93, Practice of

Engineering, Geoscience and Applied Science

Technology Act.

Bill 93 received second reading in the

Legislative Assembly on June 2nd, 2023, and

was referred to the Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment for

review. The standing committee held a public

hearing on July 18th, 2023, where it heard from

the Minister of Infrastructure and the Northwest

Territories Association of Professional

Engineers and Geoscientists. The Standing

Committee completed its clause-by-clause

review on July 25th, 2023, where it proposed

one amendment regarding publishing more

information online. The Minister concurred with

committee's amendment.

Mr. Speaker, the committee reports that Bill 93,

Practice of Engineering, Geoscience and

Applied Science Technology Act, is ready for

consideration in Committee of the Whole as

amended and reprinted. Mahsi.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Deh

Cho. Reports of Committees on the Review of

Bills. Member for Kam Lake.

BILL 94:

MISCELLANEOUS STATUTE LAW

AMENDMENT ACT 2023

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, your committee would like to

report on its consideration of Bill 94,

Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act

2023.

Bill 94 received second reading in the

Legislative Assembly on June 2nd, 2023, and

was referred to the Standing Committee on

Social Development for review. On June 29th,

2023, the standing committee held a

clause-by-clause reading with the Minister of

Justice.

Mr. Speaker, the committee reports that Bill 94,

Miscellaneous Statute Law Amendment Act

2023, is ready for consideration in Committee

of the Whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam

Lake. Reports of Committees on the Review of

Bills. Reports of standing and special

committees. Member for Yellowknife North.

Reports of Standing and Special

Committees

COMMITTEE REPORT 55-19(2):

REPORT ON BILL 85, UNITED NATIONS

DECLARATION ON THE RIGHTS OF

INDIGENOUS PEOPLES IMPLEMENTATION

ACT

MR. JOHNSON: Mr. Speaker, Your Standing

Committee on Government Operations is

pleased to provide its Report on Bill 85, United

Nations Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples Implementation Act, and

commends it to the House. Mr. Speaker, I'll

read the first three pages of the report and then

deem the rest read.

Introduction and Background

Bill 85, United Nations Declaration on the

Rights of Indigenous Peoples Implementation

Act (Bill 85) received second reading on March

30, 2023, and was referred to the Standing

Committee on Government Operations for

review. The United Nations Declaration on the

Rights of Indigenous Peoples is a

comprehensive international human rights

instrument. The Declaration sets out the

minimum standards to ensure the survival,

dignity, and well-being of Indigenous peoples.

Bill 85 follows the Calls to Action from the Truth

and Reconciliation Commission of Canada and

calls for justice from the National Inquiry into

Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and

Girls, which calls on all levels of government to

implement the Declaration. In 2019, the

Legislative Assembly established a mandate

for the Government of the Northwest Territories

directing it to prioritize this work. The Legislative

Assembly then set up a Special Committee on

Reconciliation and Indigenous Affairs to seek

and encourage discussions on implementing

the Declaration within the Northwest Territories.

SCRIA delivered an interim "what we heard"

report and a final report with recommendations.

Bill 85 is a historic piece of legislation. It is the

third of its kind in Canada, following similar

legislation in British Columbia and at the federal

level through the Government of Canada. The

bill was developed in partnership between the

GNWT and Indigenous governments or

Organizations through a working group of

officials. The bill is also linked to a separate

Memorandum of Understanding that lays out a

collaborative approach to implement the

Declaration. As of May 2023, the GNWT and 10

of 15 IGOs had signed the MOU.

Bill 85 affirms that the declaration applies in the

Northwest Territories. The GNWT will have to

take "all reasonable measures" to ensure its

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6449

laws, and their interpretation and application,

are consistent with the declaration. Bill 85 also

provides a framework for the GNWT and IGOs

to collaborate and cooperate on implementing

the declaration. Among other things, this

framework:

• Requires a "statement of consistency" to be

released with most new legislation, to

explain whether new laws are consistent

with the Declaration;

• Sets up an action plan committee, with

Members from the GNWT and IGOs, to

co-develop a work plan on making existing

laws and policies consistent with the

Declaration; and

• Affirms the authority of the GNWT to enter

into shared decision-making agreements

with IGOs.

This report summarizes committee's review of

Bill 85, starting with our engagement with IGOs,

the GNWT, and the public. This report also

describes committee's efforts to strengthen Bill

85, including 13 motions to amend the bill – ten

of which were adopted at the clause-by-clause

review – and eight recommendations.

Public Engagement

In April 2023, the committee received a public

briefing from the Premier and her staff on Bill

85. The Premier’s presentation is included in

Appendix A.

Between May 2023 and July 2023, committee

engaged the public. Our approach to

engagement is described in Appendix B.

Committee hosted six public meetings in Fort

Simpson – Lidlii Kue, Fort Smith – Thebacha,

Yellowknife – Sombak'e, Tuktoyaktuk, Inuvik,

and Deline. Committee also set out to travel to

Hay River, which the Hay River and area Metis

Local 51 had also specifically requested. When

this summer's wildfires disrupted our public

engagement plans, committee held a virtual

public briefing with Metis Local 51 instead.

About 50 people from across the Northwest

Territories participated in these meetings.

Committee also sought written submissions on

Bill 85. We sent over 100 targeted engagement

letters to IGOs, local governments, advocacy

associations, and non-profit organizations.

Committee received detailed submissions from:

• The First Nations Child & Family Caring

Society;

• The First Nations Financial Management

Board;

• The City of Yellowknife; and

• The Hay River and area Metis Local 51.

These four submissions are included in

Appendix C. The Gwich'in Tribal Council also

provided a confidential submission to facilitate

committee's discussion and review.

Committee appreciates everyone who offered

their feedback at public meetings and in written

submissions. Their participation demonstrates

a commitment to promote the inherent rights of

Dene, Metis, and Inuvialuit peoples in the

Northwest Territories. Most participants

welcomed Bill 85 as a positive step to advance

Indigenous peoples' rights and offered

thoughtful ideas to improve the bill, the action

plan, and the GNWT's approach to

implementing the Declaration more generally.

The important themes, and committee's

thoughts on those themes, were:

1. Honouring existing treaties. Work to

implement the declaration must respect the

provisions of existing treaties and agreements.

Cede and surrender clauses should be

removed from existing land claims agreements.

Committee agrees. Members have asked the

Premier to not put cede and surrender clauses

into land and resource agreements but have

not received a commitment to take out such

clauses from existing agreements.

2. Stronger language on Indigenous rights

and roles. Bill 85 should ensure the action plan

is drafted with IGOs "holding the pen" and is

implemented in accordance with free, prior, and

informed consent. The preamble should say the

GNWT "will" implement the Declaration, rather

than "should". The bill should cite substantive

equality as a guiding principle.

Committee notes that the action plan must be

prepared through the action plan committee,

which we find is sufficient to ensure IGO

participation in the drafting.

Regarding free, prior, and informed consent,

committee is unclear on how the GNWT intends

to interpret and implement FPIC. Clarity

matters in this area because, as SCRIA

observed, people have different views on what

FPIC means and operationalizing consent was

stressed as the most important mechanism to

realize reconciliation. Committee is concerned

at the risk of people being uncertain or

disappointed in the absence of clear

interpretation of FPIC. Committee is making a

recommendation on this theme.

3. Specific action plan contents. The action

plan should have to include specific measures

to confirm rights, devolve jurisdiction, build

institutional capacity, strengthen fiscal

Page 6450 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

autonomy, set service standards, and facilitate

nation-to-nation relationships. The action plan

should also be an optional pathway to

self-government.

Committee agrees and is making a

recommendation on this theme.

4. Accountability. Bill 85 should include further

accountability mechanisms beyond the annual

report and the 5-year review.

Committee agrees and passed an amendment

on this theme.

5. Funding support. The GNWT should set up

a funding framework for the action plan

committee and fund IGOs to build their capacity

on implementing the Declaration.

Committee agrees and is making a

recommendation on this theme.

6. Definition of "Indigenous Government or

Organization." Some participants found that

the bill's definition of IGO too open-ended while

others felt the GNWT is failing to recognize all

Indigenous groups in the Northwest Territories,

specifically the Metis Local 51.

Committee agrees that the bill's definition of

IGO is too open-ended. Committee was unclear

whether the bill's definition could range from

Indigenous governments to corporations and

voluntary societies. Committee suggested an

amendment to provide greater certainty that an

IGO must be a rights-bearing organization as

selected by Indigenous peoples to represent

them. The government indicated it would not

concur, and committee did not pursue the

amendment at the clause-by-clause review.

Committee notes the lack of a consistent

approach across government to this definition

which was highlighted in the review of Bill 65,

Builders' Lien Act. Committee believes the

GNWT's inconsistent approach will cause

problems in the future.

7. GNWT intervention in the federal court

case. The GNWT's intervention in a federal

court case to challenge whether Indigenous law

can prevail over provincial and territorial law for

child and family services is disappointing and

contrary to the principles of the Declaration.

Committee also finds the GNWT's approach to

the court case hard to reconcile with its

commitment to implement the Declaration. We

hope the forthcoming ruling will make this

situation less likely in the future.

8. Institutional skepticism. Some participants

were skeptical the GNWT would meaningfully

implement the Declaration. Some participants

were also concerned about a perceived lack

transparency of the Council of Leaders, Article

46 of the Declaration,38 and the

trustworthiness of the United Nations more

generally.

Committee notes these concerns which

highlight the necessity for policy work to

implement the Declaration to tangibly improve

the well-being of Indigenous residents,

individually and collectively. In Tuktoyaktuk, for

example, residents wanted to know how Bill 85

would help revitalize Inuvialuktun and ensure

access to basic dental services. Actions to

implement the Declaration should start right

away, and not be on hold until the action plan is

finalized in two years.

A more detailed summary of these themes is

included in Appendix D. Committee

encourages the GNWT, IGOs, and the action

plan committee to consider this input during the

next steps to implement the Declaration.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member

for Thebacha, that the remainder of Committee

report 55-19(2), Standing Committee on

Government Operations Report on the Review

of Bill 85: United Nations Declaration on the

Rights of Indigenous Peoples Implementation

Act be deemed read and printed in Hansard in

its entirety. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Carried

Recommendation 1: That the Government of

the Northwest Territories, in collaboration and

cooperation with Indigenous Governments or

Organizations, develop and release a clear

statement on how it interprets and intends to

apply free, prior, and informed consent.

Recommendation 2: That the Government of

the Northwest Territories, in collaboration and

cooperation with Indigenous Governments or

Organizations, include in the action plan

developed under section 9 of Bill 85 specific

measures to confirm rights, devolve jurisdiction,

build institutional capacity, strengthen fiscal

autonomy, set service standards, and facilitate

nation-to-nation relationships, among others.

This work should refer to the written submission

of the First Nations Financial Management

Board to Committee’s review of Bill 85.

Recommendation 3: That the Government of

the Northwest Territories should set up a

funding framework to support Indigenous

Governments or Organizations’ capacity to

engage with work to implement the Declaration

going forward.

Amendments

Committee put forward 13 draft motions to

amend Bill 85. These are included in Appendix

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6451

E of this report. The GNWT shared each draft

motion with Indigenous Government

representatives; negotiated together toward a

consensus position; and confirmed acceptance

from leadership. 39 The GNWT indicated it only

supported amendments where there is

consensus from Indigenous Governments,

citing the unique nature of Bill 85 and its focus

on the rights of Indigenous peoples. Committee

welcomed this approach, as Article 19 of the

Declaration says that legislation that affects

Indigenous peoples must have their free, prior

and informed consent.

Committee engaged extensively with the

GNWT on the amendments to find wording that

everyone could support. Committee commends

the Law Clerk, the Deputy Law Clerk, the

legislative drafters, departmental staff, and

Indigenous Government representatives for

their effective collaboration, which was

essential to progress on this Bill. The

government ultimately concurred with 10 of the

13 of the motions to amend at the clause-by-

clause review, held on September 20, 2023.

1. Excluding powers of the territorial court

The definition of “statutory power of decision” to

which shared decision-making agreements

could apply originally included powers of the

Territorial Court.

Committee found this inclusion highly

problematic, as it infringes upon judicial

independence. Committee put forward and

adopted Motion #1 to exclude powers of the

Territorial Court, the Supreme Court, or the

Court of Appeal from the relevant definition.

2. Clarifying timelines

Bill 85 required Ministers and Private Members

to release the statement of consistency on new

legislation “without delay.”

Committee was concerned this language was

too vague. It allowed for situations where

Members could lack access to the statement

when voting on the principle of a bill at 2nd

reading, or when reviewing the bill after 2nd

reading. Committee believes the need for

flexibility to advance urgent bills – even if a

statement of consistency is not ready – may be

justified at 1st reading, but not at 2nd reading.

Committee also notes that appropriation bills,

which could be required to advance quickly, are

not required to have a statement of

consistency.

Committee put forward and adopted Motion #2

to address this issue. Committee was also

concerned that Bill 85 did not include a deadline

to complete the annual report.

Timely reporting is important because it

provides relevant information Report on Bill 85:

United Nations Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples Implementation Act to hold

governments to account and make better

decisions. Committee put forward and adopted

Motion #6 to require the annual report to be

completed within 90 days after the end of each

fiscal year. Several IGOs welcomed the added

clarity. This timeline matches the standard set

in BC’s and Canada’s legislation.

Unlike these jurisdictions, the Northwest

Territories requires the Minister to co-develop

the annual report with the Action Plan

Committee.49 Committee encourages the

GNWT and IGOs to collaborate on meeting the

deadline.

3. Keeping Regular Members informed

Committee wanted to ensure that Regular

Members are adequately informed of

developments at the Action Plan Committee.

This awareness matters because of the Action

Plan Committee’s position to influence the

GNWT’s agenda for legislative and policy work

that Regular Members review and scrutinize.

Committee does not trust Cabinet to provide

timely, comprehensive, and detailed updates

regarding the Action Plan Committee’s work.

Committee wanted to require the Action Plan

Committee to include a representative chosen

by Regular Members who could relay

information back to them. This approach

worked well in several similar instances during

the 19th Assembly.

The GNWT was open to an amendment to

address Committee’s concerns. Committee put

forward Motion #3, which required the Action

Plan Committee to include a representative

chosen by Regular Members. The motion also

allowed the Action Plan Committee to restrict

that representative from being a Regular

Member as well as their rights of participation.

Some IGOs were opposed in principle to

allowing a Regular Member to act as a

permanent observer on the Action Plan

Committee. They were concerned that the

political nature of a Regular Member could

undermine a body that they expect to be non-

political. The GNWT and IGOs proposed a

compromise that would prohibit the

representative from being a Regular Member.

Committee could not accept this proposal

because Bill 85 does not similarly prohibit the

GNWT or IGOs from choosing political figures.

Committee wanted to ensure if the Action Plan

Committee ever became a more political body,

the law would not prohibit Regular Members

from choosing a representative from among

themselves. Committee and the GNWT were

Page 6452 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

ultimately unable to find a compromise.

Committee therefore recommends:

Recommendation 4:

That the Government of the Northwest

Territories, in consultation with the Standing

Committee on Accountability and Oversight

and Indigenous Governments or Organizations,

set up a mechanism that ensures Regular

Members can access timely, comprehensive,

and detailed information about the Action Plan

Committee’s work. Report on Bill 85: United

Nations Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples Implementation Act

4. Promoting transparency

Committee felt that Bill 85 did not go far enough

to promote the transparency of work to

implement the Declaration. Transparency

matters because it makes governments more

accountable to each other and to residents. In

this context, it can also strengthen the credibility

of governments in doing this work. Committee

was not satisfied with Bill 85’s vague

requirement for the action plan to follow a

“transparent process.”

The bill lacked specific requirements to ensure

key documents would be publicly disclosed.

Committee addressed transparency issues

through five motions to amend. Four of the

motions we put forward and adopted required

the public disclosure of:

- The action plan – in Motion #5 (subclause

9(4));

- The annual report – in Motion #7;

- The examination of the consistency of

proposed regulations with the Declaration and

section 35 rights – in Motion #10B; and

- The results of the five-year review of the act –

in Motion #13 (subclause 13(3)). to require

public disclosure of the results of the five-year

review of the act.

Committee put forward and adopted a fifth

motion, Motion #8B, requiring the GNWT to

notify Regular Members when it authorizes

negotiations on a shared decision making

agreement. The motion also requires the timely

public disclosure of any finalized agreements

on a website.

The motion represents a compromise.

Committee would have preferred a requirement

to disclose authorizations to negotiate to the

public, not only to Regular Members. The

GNWT opposed that proposal, citing concerns

about violating Cabinet Confidences. The

GNWT also wanted to maintain confidentiality

to allow flexibility for negotiations to evolve.

Committee was not convinced these concerns

outweigh the public interest in knowing, and

notes that British Columbia requires some

public disclosure in this area.

Committee therefore recommends:

Recommendation 5: That the Government of

the Northwest Territories should, without delay,

make all authorizations provided to a Minister

to negotiate or enter into a shared decision-

making agreement under the United Nations

Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous

Peoples Implementation Act publicly available

by publishing it on a government-maintained

website.

5. Ensuring public engagement

Committee was disappointed that Bill 85, as

originally drafted, was mostly silent on how the

public would be engaged. Committee believes

the GNWT should directly involve its public

while developing and reviewing the action plan

itself. The public’s Report on Bill 85: United

Nations Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples Implementation Act

concerns and aspirations should be

consistently considered and directly reflected in

the GNWT’s position on the action plan.56

Some Indigenous residents do not have a

relationship with an IGO, so their only way to be

involved is through the GNWT. Public

engagement can also improve the quality of

decisions and build confidence and trust in

public government.

IGOs were concerned that legislative

requirements for public engagement could be

confused with the GNWT’s constitutional or

legal duty for Aboriginal consultation.

Committee acknowledges this concern but

notes that the GNWT considers public

engagement and Aboriginal consultation as

distinct processes.

Committee put forward and adopted two

motions to require the GNWT to engage the

public on two items:

- The action plan – Motion #5 (subclause 9(3));

and

- The five-year review – Motion #13 (subclause

13(2)).

Committee also considered a third amendment

to require the GNWT to engage the public on

shared decision-making agreements in draft

form. IGOs strongly opposed this idea, citing its

incompatibility with Nation-to-Nation

negotiations, emphasizing the rarity of public

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6453

involvement in such negotiations, and asserting

that it would lead to needless delays without

meaningfully enhancing transparency, as final

agreements will be made public. Committee

accepted these concerns. However, Committee

was uncomfortable with the lack of any GNWT

accountability before entering these

agreements. The GNWT is the public

government of the Northwest Territories and

must be accountable to its public. As a

compromise, Committee put forward Motion

#8A, which would require the GNWT to engage

with Regular Members before entering a

shared decision making agreement.

The GNWT rejected the motion, citing

continued IGO concerns.

Committee therefore recommends:

Recommendation 6: That the Government of

the Northwest Territories provide notice to and

seek comments from the Standing Committee

of Accountability and Oversight before entering

into a shared decision-making agreement

under the United Nations Declaration on the

Rights of Indigenous Peoples Implementation

Act.

6. Enhancing accountability and oversight

Committee was concerned that Bill 85 does not

do enough to make the GNWT accountable for

implementing the Declaration.

The First Nations Child & Family Caring Society

also recommended further accountability

mechanisms. Committee also notes that the

Truth and Reconciliation Commission of

Canada concluded that Report on Bill 85:

United Nations Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples Implementation Act “all

levels of government must make a new

commitment to reconciliation and

accountability” [emphasis added].

SCRIA’s final report highlighted the need for

effective oversight, monitoring, and

accountability. SCRIA recommended that the

legislation “include a mechanism that will

monitor how the law is being implemented.”

Committee agreed and put forward and

adopted Motion #11, which basically

implements SCRIA’s recommendation. The

Action Plan Committee, which will develop the

independent oversight mechanism should draw

inspiration from SCRIA’s final report and

federal Bill C-29: An Act to provide for the

establishment of a national council for

reconciliation.

Committee also identified a deficiency in the

independence of the five-year review. Making

the Action Plan Committee responsible for the

review could create a conflict because this body

also develops the action plan.

While the Action Plan Committee is suitable for

oversight in many ways, Committee put forward

Motion #15, calling for an independent person

or entity chosen by the Action Plan Committee

to lead the review. The GNWT rejected this

motion, citing concerns from IGOs. As a result,

Committee put forward and adopted a

compromise amendment

– Motion #13 (subclause 13(1)).

The motion explicitly states that the Action Plan

Committee may choose an independent person

or entity to lead the review. The GNWT did not

object, considering the motion redundant.

Because we exhausted legislative options to

ensure an independent review, Committee

recommends:

Recommendation 7: That the Government of

the Northwest Territories, in its capacity as a

member of the Action Plan Committee,

advocate for the Action Plan Committee to

choose an independent person or entity to lead

the five-year review of the United Nations

Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous

Peoples Implementation Act.

7. Clarifying the relationship between the

legislation and the MOU

Bill 85 mentions the Memorandum of

Understanding (MOU) in two spots. Committee

found these references problematic because

they may allow the MOU – a nonlegislative

instrument – to require the GNWT to do things

without oversight from the Assembly.

Committee was particularly concerned that the

reference in Section 10(2)(e) could enable

changes to action plan priorities without

legislative oversight. Committee brought these

concerns to the GNWT, but we were not

satisfied with their response. Committee

therefore sought to clarify the relationship

between the two documents. We put forward

and adopted Motion #12, which addresses

situations where the MOU is in a conflict with

the proposed Act and ensures the act will

prevail. The GNWT did not object, perceiving

the motion as unnecessary. Committee

welcomed the greater certainty. Report on Bill

85: United Nations Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples Implementation Act

Bill 85 and Private Member’s Bills

Bill 85 requires Private Members sponsoring a

bill to table a statement without delay explaining

whether the bill is consistent with the

Declaration and section 35 rights.

Page 6454 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

Committee was displeased that Regular

Members were not consulted on this proposal

at any point before the Premier introduced the

Bill. Committee discussed extensively whether

the requirement infringes on Members’

privilege. Committee was advised that the

answer is no – Members can still move ahead

with Private Member’s Bills, even if they are

deemed inconsistent with the Declaration or

with section 35 rights. As a result, Committee

did not further consider changing or removing

the requirement from the Bill. However,

Committee fears this requirement will have a

chilling effect on Private Member’s Bills.

Members already face significant barriers to

developing a Private Member’s Bill. It is unclear

whether and how Private Member’s Bills must

realize free, prior and informed consent (FPIC)

to be deemed consistent with the Declaration.

The GNWT’s lack of clarity about FPIC does not

help. Realizing FPIC could be challenging

given Members’ limited resources. Committee

therefore recommends: Recommendation 8:

That the Government of the Northwest

Territories consult the Standing Committee on

Accountability and Oversight when developing

guidelines for statements of consistency

required under the United Nations Declaration

on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples

Implementation Act.

Conclusion

At the September 20th, 2023, clause-by-clause

review, Committee passed a motion to report

Bill 85, as amended, to the Legislative

Assembly as ready for consideration in

Committee of the Whole. This concludes the

Standing Committee on Government

Operations’ review of Bill 85. Typically,

Committee includes a recommendation in each

report requesting a response from government

within 120 days. The recommendation is then

moved as a motion in the House and Cabinet is

required to respond.

However, since the 19th Legislative Assembly

will dissolve in less than 120 days, Committee

has decided to leave out this recommendation

and requests that the government provide a

public response to this report, even of a

preliminary nature, before the beginning of the

20th Assembly.

MR. SPEAKER: Member for Yellowknife North.

MR. JOHNSON: Mr. Speaker, I move,

seconded by the Member for Thebacha, that

Committee Report 55-19(2), Standing

Committee on Government Operations Report

on the Review of Bill 85: United Nations

Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous

Peoples Implementation Act, be received by

the Assembly and referred to Committee of the

Whole. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for

Yellowknife North. The motion is in order. To

the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried. Bill 85 will

be moved into Committee of the Whole.

---Carried

Reports of standing and special committees.

Member for Kam Lake.

COMMITTEE REPORT 57-19(2):

REPORT ON BILL 65, BUILDERS’ LIEN ACT

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, your Standing Committee on

Social Development is pleased to provide its

report on the review of Bill 65, Builders' Lien

Act.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member

for Great Slave, that Committee Report

57-19(2) be deemed read and printed in

Hansard in its entirety. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam

Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried. The

committee report is deemed read.

MS. CLEVELAND:

Introduction

Bill 65: Builders’ Lien Act (Bill 65) received

second reading on November 3, 2022 and was

referred to the Standing Committee on Social

Development (Committee) for review. The

Department of Justice (Department) sponsored

the Bill.

On January 18, 2023, Committee held a public

hearing on Bill 65. Committee heard comments

focused on why the Builders’ Lien Act, as

drafted, does not apply to the Government of

the Northwest Territories (GNWT), but does

apply to municipalities, and does not consider

Indigenous governments at all. There were also

questions on how provisions related to lands

owned by those entities would work, particularly

the provisions on seizure and sale. Committee

had previously raised similar concerns,

particularly concerning types of lands subject to

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6455

the Bill and the extent to which GNWT engaged

with Indigenous and municipal governments in

developing the Bill.

During the public hearing, Committee

expressed concerns regarding the lack of

consultation done on behalf of the Department

prior to Bill 65’s introduction. In response, the

Minister of Justice made a commitment to

Committee to conduct further engagement with

the public. Following the public hearing, the

Government House Leader formally requested

that Committee seek an extension of the review

period under Rule 8.3(2). The Department

needed further time to engage in discussions

with Indigenous governments, municipalities,

and industry about Committee’s concerns.

Committee agreed and successfully sought an

extension.

Over the course of reviewing the Bill,

Committee considered several potential

amendments and engaged extensively with the

Department on amending the Bill to better

reflect concerns related to land interests and

exemptions from seizure and sale. Six months

were dedicated to Committee and

Departmental staff working together and

negotiating on potential amendments.

However, while Committee acknowledges that

significant progress was made, in the end, the

Minister did not agree with Committee on a path

forward on several key areas of the Bill.

Committee therefore decided that the Bill as

drafted is not ready to proceed. Committee

decided it was better to urge the Department to

work to improve the Bill and reintroduce it in the

next Assembly with significant modifications to

improve it, rather than to proceed with a

fundamentally flawed Bill at this time.

Committee’s Outlook on Builders’ Lien

Legislation

Committee strongly supports the need for new

builders’ lien legislation in the Northwest

Territories. The existing Mechanics Lien Act

has not changed substantially for decades.

Since then, real property development,

contractual arrangements and construction

practices have changed considerably and

continue to evolve. The central intent of such

legislation is to ensure that contractors,

subcontractors, and workers are paid for their

work and materials. In recent years, other

Canadian jurisdictions have updated their

builders’ lien legislation, such as Ontario

(2019), British Columbia (2020), and Alberta

(2022).

However, Committee has concluded that Bill

65, as it is currently written, is not ready for

passage in the Legislative Assembly.

Committee believes the Department needs to

approach this legislation differently and author

a new Builders’ Lien Act within the first half of

the 20th Assembly as a significant priority.

Committee Considered Public Input

Committee sought public feedback on Bill 65

with a public notice and targeted engagement

letters. Committee received written

submissions from:

- Mr. Dale Johnson of Clark Builders; and

- Yellowknives Dene First Nation (YKDFN)

All written submissions are included in an

Appendix to this report.

Additionally, during the public hearing on Bill

65, Committee heard remarks from the Minister

of Justice and asked questions to departmental

officials. Committee thanks Mr. Johnson and

YKDFN for their engagement. Their

participation helped inform Committee

discussions on key issues for future

consideration.

Committee Concerns

There are three main areas that Committee had

concerns with regarding Bill 65.

▪ The primary issue was determining which

land interests held by different levels of

government and Indigenous governments

would be subject to seizure and sale, as that

is the the ultimate remedy for a lien that

ensures a contractor or subcontractor is

paid for their services.

▪ Second, the core structure of the Bill being

such that exemptions from seizure and sale

are made on the basis of who owns a

project, rather than what type of project it is.

▪ Lastly, Bill 65 did not include a provision to

introduce a prompt payment system that

ensures a timeline for both issuing and

paying invoices on building projects and

provides a dispute resolution mechanism to

resolve payment disputes.

Land Interests of Different Levels of

Government

Committee’s main concern with Bill 65 is how

the Act would operate in regard to liens on

construction projects within the context of

several types of lands owned by multiple levels

of government across the NWT. For example,

of the lands to consider includes municipalities,

lands withdrawn from disposition for the

purpose of pending treaties, private land, and

properties located within land, resources, and

self-government agreement areas, among

Page 6456 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

others. Given that within the NWT much land is

either owned, or managed and administered by

different levels of government, Committee

considered it vital that the Act clearly state

which types of lands may be subject to seizure

and sale as a remedy for a lien on a project.

Ultimately, Committee did not want one level of

government to be exempt from seizure and

sale, while other levels of government would be

subject to seizure and sale. From the start, it

was Committee’s desire that all levels of

government be treated the same under the Act.

However, the Bill as drafted does not bind the

GNWT, but it does bind municipalities, and it

makes no reference to Indigenous

governments. This latter point, of having no

reference to Indigenous governments, was a

major point of contention for Committee, as it

provided the sense that the Bill had been

drafted without the consideration of Indigenous

governments.

Committee had many discussions on this

subject, including with the Government House

Leader. Committee struggled with the notion

that if Indigenous governments would be

subject to the Bill, and would have their lands

exempted from seizure and sale just like the

GNWT or a municipal government, then how

would an Indigenous government be defined?

Committee proposed several draft motions to

amend this aspect of the Bill, and considered

many draft motions proposed by the

Department. As these discussions progressed

though, Members quickly realized that this topic

raised bigger questions about defining an

Indigenous government that could not and

should not be answered within the context of

this Bill.

Committee determined that it is inappropriate

for both the legislative branch, as well as the

executive branch of government to prescribe a

definition on what an Indigenous government is

within the context of Builders’ Lien legislation.

Especially while there is another Bill before the

Assembly concerning the United Nations

Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous

Peoples, which is an internationally recognized

document that affirms the autonomy and self-

determination of Indigenous peoples. Article 3

of the Declaration, which reads:

“Indigenous peoples have the right to self-

determination. By virtue of that right they freely

determine their political status and freely

pursue their economic, social and cultural

development.”

With this consideration, Committee determined

that the GNWT should not be the arbiter in

defining what an Indigenous government is, as

that is a matter that should be decided by

Indigenous peoples and Indigenous

governments themselves. Thus, Members

concluded that while this is an important topic

that is part of a larger discussion that should be

had, it is not Committee’s place to legislate on

this matter with this Bill.

Furthermore, Committee did consider several

options as potential paths forward with this

section of the Bill. Those included leaving the

definition of Indigenous government undefined,

identifying Indigenous governments through

regulation, as well as utilizing the definition of

Indigenous government from another Bill

before the Assembly, which is Bill 85: United

Nations Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples Implementation Act.

It was at this point where discussions broke

down, as Committee did not consider this

subject sufficiently addressed within the Bill as

drafted. Thus, since a compromise could not be

reached with the government on what specific

language to use in the Act, Committee decided

that Bill 65 is not ready to move forward.

Exempting Governments vs. Exempting

Project Types

Committee recognized that if Bill 65 was

amended to bind the GNWT, along with

municipalities and Indigenous governments, to

be subject to liens but not to seizure and sale of

land, then very little infrastructure in the NWT

would be left to be subject to seizure and sale.

Recognizing this, Committee determined that

the Bill as drafted, which provides an exemption

for seizure and sale on the basis of who owns

a project, was problematic.

Therefore, following much consideration on this

point, Committee determined that exemption

for seizure and sale of land should instead

apply to the type of project, rather than the

owner of the project. Approaching the Bill this

way would avoid the issue of having to define

Indigenous governments altogether.

This approach to the Bill would ensure a better

balance between protecting critical public

infrastructure such as health centres,

highways, or emergency services, etc., against

the need to protect contractors, workers, and

suppliers, which is the primary intent of the Bill.

However, because this is such a substantial

shift in how the Bill is structured, and since

there is not enough time within the 19th

Assembly to make this fundamental change to

the Bill’s structure, Committee decided that the

Bill should be re-drafted.

Prompt Payment System

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6457

One aspect that was absent from Bill 65 is a

section on prompt payment, which would

provide assurances within a set timeline for

contractors and subcontractors to issue

invoices for their work, and for owners to pay

invoices for services rendered. A prompt

payment system would also create a dispute

resolution mechanism by providing a

framework for resolving disputes between

parties. Committee is aware of several

jurisdictions that have codified prompt payment

systems into legislation, with the most recent

jurisdictions whose amendments and

regulations came into force being Alberta

(2022), Saskatchewan (2022), and Ontario

(2019).

Committee did ask the Government House

Leader if this system was considered, and the

response was that the Department made a

conscious choice not to include this provision at

this time. However, the government indicated

that it is open to adding this provision in the

future. The government also considered

adjudication provisions, but chose not include it

in the Bill, as the government considers the

issue of payment schedules as a matter for the

Supreme Court, under debtor/creditor law.

Committee heard prompt payment as a vital

concern of the construction industry. Therefore,

Committee considered the absence of a prompt

payment system as a significant missing aspect

within Bill 65 and Committee would like to see

the inclusion of such a provision within future

lien legislation introduced by the government.

Conclusion

On June 29, 2023, Committee held a clause-

by-clause review. Committee passed a motion

to report Bill 65 to the Legislative Assembly as

not ready for consideration in Committee of the

Whole.

Committee strongly recommends the

Department to work on re-introducing Builders’

Lien legislation that addresses the fundamental

flaws with Bill 65 as a top priority for the next

Assembly.

This concludes the Standing Committee on

Social Development’s review of Bill 65:

Builders’ Lien Act.

MR. SPEAKER: Reports of standing and

special committees. Member for Kam Lake.

MS. CLEVELAND: Mr. Speaker, I move,

seconded by the Member for Great Slave, that

Committee Report 57-19(2), Standing

Committee on Social Development Report on

the Review of Bill 65: Builders' Lien Act, be

received and adopted by the Assembly. Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam

Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Reports of standing and special committees.

Member for Great Slave.

COMMITTEE REPORT 60-19(2):

REPORT ON BILL 80, DENTAL HYGIENISTS

PROFESSION STATUTES AMENDMENT

ACT

MS. NOKLEBY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your

Standing Committee on Social Development is

pleased to provide its report on review of Bill 80,

Dental Hygienists Profession Statutes

Amendment Act.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member

for Monfwi, that Committee report 60-19(2),

Standing Committee on Social Development

Report on the Review of Bill 80: Dental

Hygienists Profession Statutes Amendment

Act, be deemed read and printed in Hansard in

its entirety. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Great

Slave. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried. Bill 80 is

deemed read.

---Carried.

MS. NOKLEBY:

Introduction

Bill 80: Dental Hygienists Profession Statutes

Amendment Act (Bill 80) received second

reading on March 30, 2023, and was referred to

the Standing Committee on Social

Development (Committee) for review. Bill 80 is

a private member’s bill, sponsored by the

Member for Kam Lake, to amend the Health

and Social Services Professions Act and the

Dental Auxiliaries Act. This Bill proposes to

provide dental hygienists with the option to work

independently of a dentist. Specifically, Bill 80:

▪ Will require the Minister of Health and

Social Services to recommend to the

Page 6458 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

Commissioner regulations under the Health

and Social Services Professions Act, on or

before March 31, 2024;

▪ Designate the profession of dental

hygienists as a profession, effective April 1,

2024;

▪ Transfer the regulation of dental hygienists

from the Dental Auxiliaries Act to the Health

and Social Services Professions Act,

effective April 1, 2024; and

▪ Replace gender specific language in the

Dental Auxiliaries Act with gender neutral

language.

This report outlines key events leading up to the

introduction of Bill 80; describes Committee’s

engagement with the public; and summarizes

stakeholders’ positions and Committee’s

decisions on key issues.

Committee Welcomes Improvements to Oral

Healthcare

The purpose of Bill 80 is to permit dental

hygienists to work independently of a dentist.

Currently, under the Dental Auxiliaries Act, all

dental hygienists working in the NWT must be

supervised by a dentist. Section 6 of the Dental

Auxiliaries Act reads:

6. No dental hygienist shall practice dental

hygiene except under the direction and control

of a dentist who assumes direct professional

responsibility for the patients in respect of

whom the services are being provided.

On May 12, 2023, Committee held a public

hearing on Bill 80. Committee heard comments

focused on the important role of oral health in

preventative healthcare, and its significance

within the overall health of individuals.

Members expressed concern with the current

state of oral healthcare delivery across the

NWT, especially in small communities and

regional centres. Members also voiced concern

about the lack of equitable access to

preventative oral healthcare across the NWT.

Committee agreed unanimously with the intent

of Bill 80 and all Members agreed to support it.

While the Department of Health and Social

Services (the Department) did not present at

the public hearing, Committee did meet with the

Minister to discuss the Department’s concerns

with the Bill. Committee also exchanged

correspondence with the Minister to try

reaching consensus on an agreeable timeline

for when the proposed changes within Bill 80

will take effect.

The Minister stated that the estimated timeline

for the Department to complete the work within

Bill 80 would take up to four years to complete.

The Department also sent draft motions to

amend Bill 80 with the dates of July 31, 2027,

and August 1, 2027, as the dates of enactment

for professional designation of dental

hygienists, as well as the date for the creation

of dental hygienist regulations, respectively.

However, Committee did not agree with the

proposed amendments from the Department

and advanced motions with a more aggressive

timeline to implement the regulatory work.

AMENDING BILL 80’s TIMELINES

Committee held a clause-by-clause review with

the Member for Kam Lake on August 10, 2023.

Committee engaged with the Member for Kam

Lake on a compromised date of enactment on

the Bill’s proposed timelines. Committee then

passed two motions to amend the Bill’s

timelines for when dental hygienists become a

designated profession, and the date by which

the Department shall establish dental hygienist

regulations.

Originally, clauses 1 and 2 of Bill 80 read:

1. (1) The Health and Social Services

Professions Act is amended by this section.

(2) Section 5 is repealed and the following is

substituted:

5. (1) The Commissioner in Executive Council

may, by order, designate professions to which

this Act applies.

(2) The profession of dental hygienists is

designated as a profession to which this Act

applies, effective April 1, 2024.

Additionally, the original wording for Clause 3

read:

(3) The following is added after section 67:

67.1. (1) The Minister shall, on or before March

31, 2024, recommend to the Commissioner

regulations under section 67 to regulate the

practice of dental hygienists.

(2) Before recommending regulations under

subsection (1), the Minister shall consult with

a) Indigenous governments;

b) the Canadian Dental Hygienists Association;

and

c) dental hygienists actively practicing in the

Northwest Territories.

Committee proposed two motions to amend the

timelines (included in Appendix 1). These

amendments will extend the timelines proposed

in the Bill to December 1, 2025, and November

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6459

30, 2025, respectively giving the Department

more time to enact the proposed legislative

changes. Committee believes these

amendments, which will come into force

approximately halfway through the 20th

Assembly, will be a sufficient timeline for the

Department.

On August 10, 2023, at the clause-by-clause

reading of Bill 80, the Member for Kam Lake,

sponsoring Member of the Bill concurred with

these amendments.

Committee Considered Public Input

Committee sought public feedback on Bill 80

with a public notice and targeted engagement

letters. Committee received written

submissions from:

- Ms. Nadja Lennie;

- Ms. Ashley Morine; and

- Hon. Julie Green, Minister of Health and

Social Services.

All written submissions are included in

Appendix 2 to this report.

Moreover, during the public hearing on Bill 80,

Committee heard remarks from the Member for

Kam Lake, along with Mr. Todd Orvitz, CAO of

the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, and Ms.

Nadja Lennie, owner of Fireside Denture Clinic.

Committee thanks Mr. Orvitz and Ms. Lennie for

their engagement. Their participation helped

inform Committee discussions on key issues for

future consideration.

Committee Recommends Urgency in Oral

Preventive Care

Committee strongly agrees with the Member for

Kam Lake’s concerns about the lacking areas

of oral healthcare delivery within the NWT.

Committee supports the intent of Bill 80 and

acknowledges that the Department has stated

its support of the Bill’s intent as well. Committee

considers oral healthcare as an urgent matter

that must be addressed by the Department

sooner, rather than later. While the amended

Bill sets fall 2025 as the deadline for a new

designation and regulations for dental

hygienists, the Department should aim to

complete this work even sooner.

In addition, during the public hearing on Bill 80

the CEO of the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation

(IRC) stated that their organization had recently

established a Memorandum of Understanding

with the Northwest Territories Health and Social

Services Authority (NTHSSA) enabling IRC to

employ their own practicing dental hygienist

under the direction and control of the

NTHSSA’s contracted oversight dentist.

Committee believes this type of arrangement is

a great interim option to increase access to oral

preventive care while the department works on

designating dental hygienists a profession and

creating accompanying regulations. Committee

would like to see similar types of agreements as

that between the IRC and the NTHSSA be

established with other communities and

organizations that deliver health services.

Therefore, Committee recommends the

following:

Recommendation 1: The Standing Committee

on Social Development recommends that the

Department of Health and Social Services

increase efforts to improve oral preventative

care in communities. This work should include:

▪ Providing interim options for dental

hygienists to work independently of a

dentist prior to fall 2025; and

▪ Ensuring Indigenous Governments and

other organizations that deliver health

services are aware of other options to

provide oral preventive healthcare.

Conclusion

On August 10, 2023, Committee held a clause-

by-clause review. Committee passed a motion

to report Bill 80, as amended, to the Legislative

Assembly as ready for consideration in

Committee of the Whole.

This concludes the Standing Committee on

Social Development’s review of Bill 80: Dental

Hygienists Profession Statutes Amendment

Act. Typically, Committee includes a

recommendation in each report requesting a

response from government within 120 days.

The recommendation is then moved as a

motion in the House and Cabinet is required to

respond. However, since the 19th Legislative

Assembly will dissolve in less than 120 days,

Committee has decided to leave out this

recommendation and requests that the

government provide a public response to this

report, even of a preliminary nature, before the

beginning of the 20th Assembly.

MR. SPEAKER: Reports of standing and

special committees. Member for Kam Lake.

COMMITTEE REPORT 59-19(2):

REPORT ON THE REVIEW OF BILL 77,

NURSING PROFESSION ACT

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, your Standing Committee on

Social Development is pleased to provide its

Report on the Review of Bill 77: Nursing

Profession Act.

Page 6460 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member

for Great Slave, that Committee report

59-19(2), Standing Committee on Social

Development Report on the Review of Bill 77:

Nursing Profession Act, be deemed read and

printed in Hansard in its entirety. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam

Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

MS. CLEVELAND:

Introduction

Bill 77: Nursing Profession Act (Bill 77) received

second reading on March 29, 2023, and was

referred to the Standing Committee on Social

Development (Committee) for review. Bill 77

repeals and replaces the Licensed Practical

Nurses Act (Act), which has only had minor

amendments since coming into force in 2004. It

is intended to improve regulatory function by

establishing a single regulatory framework for

all nurses in the Northwest Territories (NWT). It

will also standardize the assessment of

credentials and oversight of nursing practices

under one regulatory structure.

Bill 77 was developed through close

collaboration with Registered Nurses

Association of Northwest Territories and

Nunavut (RNANTNU), which will be renamed

the College and Association of Nurses of the

Northwest Territories and Nunavut. Regulatory

bodies of this kind have been established in

other jurisdictions.

Bill 77 changes the following:

• Repeals the Licensed Practical Nurses Act

and transfers the authority of RNANTNU;

• Establishes new nursing designations,

scopes of practice, registers, and

associated requirements for Licensed

Practical Nurse, Registered Nurse

Authorized Prescriber,

• Registered Psychiatric Nurse, and

Registered Psychiatric Nurse Authorized

Prescriber;

• Allows Registered Nurses and Registered

Psychiatric Nurses who meet certain

qualifications to order and interpret specific

diagnostic and screening tests, make

diagnoses, and prescribe specific

medications;

• Updates the complaints and discipline

process, including the appointment of a

Complaints Officer;

• Adds a requirement for employers to report

to RNANTNU if they terminate a nurse, or if

the nurse chooses to resign instead of being

terminated, due to unprofessional conduct;

• Adds by-law making powers to regulate the

practice of nurses, including nurses who

practice solely through virtual care; and

• Modernizes language.

Committee Considered Public Input

Committee sought public feedback on Bill 77

with a public notice and targeted engagement

letters. Committee received written

submissions from the Canadian Nurses

Protective Society (CNPS), Scott Robinson RN,

and RNANTNU which are appended to this

report.

On May 10, 2023, Committee held a public

hearing to review Bill 77. At that meeting,

Committee heard remarks from the Minister of

Health and Social Services and her staff, and

they received oral comments from RNANTNU

and the public. Committee thanks all these

participants for their engagement.

One area of concern identified was the need to

provide clarity and certainty with respect to the

complaints process. Committee agreed with

this concern. RNANTNU stressed the need to

redact information in the complaints summary

to protect client health and other sensitive

information. In response, Committee stressed

the importance of procedural fairness,

specifically that nurses should receive full,

unredacted copies of complaints made against

them.

Committee also had concerns about how

complaints regarding unprofessional conduct

would be addressed by the new statutory officer

created by Bill 77, and asked questions about

complaints related to Cultural Safety

competencies and standards of care for

Indigenous residents and those living in small

communities. The Minister referred to Living

Well Together: Indigenous Cultural Awareness

and Sensitivity Training for GNWT employees,

and RNANTNU discussed existing standards of

practice with respect to Cultural Safety during

the public hearing. While these continuing

Cultural Safety initiatives are important,

Committee stressed the need for nurses to

provide culturally safe care in the NWT.

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6461

Committee was initially concerned about

changes to the scope of practice, job

descriptions, and change of pay for some

nurses. For instance, Registered Psychiatric

nurses will see major changes with Bill 77

because they will now be regulated in the NWT.

Committee also asked questions about whether

the Government of the Northwest Territories

was corresponding with Nunavut on

amendments to the Act and heard that the

territories were working together but not aligned

legislatively. RNANTNU maintains it will be able

to operate under the NWT and Nunavut’s

respective Acts governing the practice of

nursing in both jurisdictions.

One area that CNPS and other members of the

public identified was the need to provide clarity

around insurance and protection, as well as the

appeal mechanism for respondents ordered to

pay costs during the complaints process.

Committee shared these concerns.

After careful consideration, Committee

supported six motions amending Bill 77. Three

of these proposed amendments were the direct

result of public engagement. Committee

negotiated the exact wording with the GNWT.

The other three proposed amendments were

non-contentious: two corrections were made to

French language clauses in the Act, and one

was an agreed upon change regarding

insurance and liability protection.

Committee Amended Six Clauses

Motion 1

Both Committee and the GNWT supported the

submission made by CNPS to amend Clause

20 of Bill 77 by adding the words “liability

insurance or protection” to paragraph 20(1)(t),

striking out "liability insurance." A motion

reflecting this change was drafted and passed

at the clause-by-clause review.

Motions 2 and 4

While Committee noted the mechanism in

place to appeal decisions, submissions during

public engagement noted this would not apply

to costs of investigations in situations where

complaints were dismissed by the Board of

Inquiry.

Two motions related to this issue were drafted.

The first proposed that Bill 77 be amended by

adding language “establishing the procedure to

be followed in appeals of directions to pay the

costs of investigations” after clause 20(1)(z.19).

The second amended clause 67 by introducing

substantial changes regarding an “Appeal of

Direction to Pay Costs of Investigation” where

a hearing was not required 67.1(1), concerning

notice of direction 67.1(2), appeal 67.1(3),

referral to the Board of Inquiry 67.1(4), and

language clarifying an order as to costs 67.1(5).

The Minister concurred with both motions, and

they were passed at the clause-by-clause

review.

Motion 3

Committee feels that it is procedurally fair for

nurses to receive full, unredacted copies of

complaints made against them. Committee also

noted that while nurses are entitled to receive a

copy of a complaint made against them under

the Act, they may be unaware of this right.

The GNWT and RNANTNU remain concerned

about protecting client health information, and

redacting potentially vexatious material from

complaints, and therefore prefer to provide

summaries of complaints.

After negotiation with the GNWT, a motion was

drafted concerning “notice of right to receive

copy of complaint” which proposed to amend

clause 56(5) by adding “(5.1) A summary of a

complaint provided under paragraph (2)(a) or

(5)(a) must include a statement advising the

respondent of the right to receive a copy of the

complaint under paragraph (2)(b) or (5)(b) on

request.” The Minister concurred with the

motion, and it was passed at the clause-by-

clause review.

Motions 5 and 6

Committee agreed to support the GNWT’s

recommendation to correct the French versions

of clause 70, under the heading “Renvoi à une

commission d’enquête” and 119(3), by striking

out "qui n’est pas un médecin" and substituting

"qui est un médecin." Two motions reflecting

these amendments were drafted and passed at

the clause-byclause review.

Conclusion

On May 31, 2023, Committee held a clause-by-

clause review.iv Committee passed the

motions to report Bill 77, as amended, to the

Legislative Assembly as ready for

consideration in Committee of the Whole. In the

House on June 1, Bill 77, Nursing Profession

Act, was orally reported as ready. On June 2,

Bill 77 was cited in the Orders of the Day as one

of the items under Consideration in Committee

of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters.

This concludes Standing Committee on Social

Development’s review of Bill 77: Nursing

Profession Act.

MR. SPEAKER: Reports of standing and

special committees. Member for Kam Lake.

Page 6462 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member

for Great Slave, that Committee report

59-19(2), Standing Committee on Social

Development Report on the Review of Bill 77:

Nursing Profession Act, be received and

adopted by the Assembly. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam

Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any think

abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Reports of standing and special committees.

Member for Kam Lake.

COMMITTEE REPORT 58-19(2):

REPORT ON BILL 82, LEGAL PROFESSION

ACT

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, your Standing Committee on

Social Development is pleased to provide its

Report on the Review of Bill 82: Legal

Profession Act.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member

for Great Slave, that Committee Report

58-19(2) be deemed read and printed in

Hansard in its entirety. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam

Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried. Bill 82 is

deemed read and moved into Hansard.

---Carried.

MS. CLEVELAND:

Introduction

Bill 82: Legal Profession Act (Bill 82) received

second reading on March 30, 2023, and was

referred to the Standing Committee on Social

Development (Committee) for review.

Bill 82 repeals and replaces the existing Legal

Profession Act (Act). The changes modernize

the legislation based on the recommendations

from a discussion paper created by the Law

Society of the Northwest Territories (Society) to

the Department of Justice. Specifically, Bill 82

will:

• Specify the purpose and administration of

the Society.

• Define "member" of the Society and revise

conditions for membership.

• Broaden the definition of the "practice of

law."

• Modernize and expand the tools available

for dealing with lawyer misconduct.

• Define the Assurance Fund, create a time

limit for claims, and permit the Society to

make charges against the Fund and to

pursue claims against lawyers.

• Give the Society the ability to appoint

interim custodians of a member's property

and practice and approve that a lawyer may

open a trust account.

• Address other matters such as expanding

on liability protections, disclosure and

safeguarding of solicitor-client privilege, use

of titles, violations under the Act and

associated fines, and obligations related to

financial inspections and audits of lawyers.

The existing Legal Profession Act was passed

in 1976 and established the Society as the body

that regulates lawyers in the NWT. In 2018, a

Revision Committee was established by the

Executive of the Society to consult on and

recommend changes, as the Act has not been

extensively reviewed since it was first enacted.

Parts of the existing Act are considered

obsolete, and key issues related to the

regulation of lawyers remain unaddressed.

This report outlines key events leading up to the

introduction of Bill 82; describes Committee's

engagement with stakeholders; and

summarizes stakeholder positions and

Committee decisions.

Committee Welcomes Improvements to

Legal Profession Act

In October 2022, the Standing Committee on

Accountability and Oversight (AOC) received

the Legislative Proposal for Bill 82. AOC

confirmed support of the Bill with the

Government House Leader and Bill 82 was

tabled in the House during the February-March

2023 Sitting.

Committee held a public hearing on May 10,

2023, and completed its clause-by-clause

review of Bill 82 with the Minister of Justice on

May 31, 2023. Committee did not propose any

amendments to the Bill.

Committee Considered Public Input

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6463

Committee sought public feedback on Bill 82

with a public notice and targeted engagement

letters. Committee received written

submissions from:

• The Law Society of the Northwest

Territories;

• Mr. Brian Flewelling, a private resident;

• Northwest Territory Métis Nation; and

• Délı̨ nę Got'ı̨ nę Government.

All written submissions are included in an

Appendix to this report. Additionally, during the

public hearing on Bill 82, Committee heard

remarks from the Minister of Justice, asked

questions to Departmental officials, and

received oral comments from the Society and

Mr. Flewelling. Committee thanks the Society

and Mr. Flewelling for their engagement. Their

participation helped inform Committee

discussions on key issues for future

consideration.

Committee Concerns

Overall, Committee supported Bill 82 since it

was first introduced. However, before

advancing the Bill, there were several areas of

concern that Committee wanted further

feedback on from the public and the Minister of

Justice. Those areas are:

• Access to justice;

• Cultural safety trainings taken by lawyers;

• Public access to law libraries and legal

materials;

• Regulating paralegals; and

• Pro bono legal services.

Before the end of the May-June 2023 Sitting,

Committee received feedback from both the

Law Society and the Minister of Justice

regarding these areas of concern. Based on

that feedback, Committee considered the Bill

ready to be advanced to the next stage.

Access to Justice

In both its oral and written submissions, the Law

Society explained that while access to justice is

"an important and ever-present issue" for their

profession, this is a broader issue that requires

all justice system participants to help find the

right solutions. The Society also stated that one

of the recommendations in their discussion

paper specifically addressed access to justice,

which in Bill 82 is section 21(2)(e):

- S.21(2) No person shall carry on the practice

of law in the Northwest Territories or hold out

that they are entitled to practise law or that they

are a registrant of the Law Society, unless the

person is:

a. an active registrant of the Law Society;

b. authorized to practise law by the governing

body for lawyers in an extra-territorial

jurisdiction approved by the Executive and has

met the requirements established by the Law

Society of the Northwest Territories to engage

in the practice of law in the Northwest

Territories;

c. a student-at-law and is practising law in

accordance with the rules;

d. a law student and is practising in accordance

with the rules; or

e. otherwise authorized under this Act or the

rules to carry on the practice of law in the

Northwest Territories.

As well as section 22(4)(d) of Bill 82, which

reads:

- S.22(4) The following classes of registrants

exist for the Law Society:

a. Lawyers;

b. Students-at-law;

c. Law students;

d. Any other class of individuals providing

limited legal services set out in the rules.

All specified rules throughout these two

sections need to be further developed by the

Law Society, with the end goal of greater

access to justice. Upon learning this,

Committee considered this concern sufficiently

addressed.

Cultural Safety Training

Committee initially contemplated whether Bill

82 should have included a provision requiring

all legal professionals practicing in the NWT to

undergo mandatory training for cultural safety

and trauma-informed practices. However, in the

Society's written submission, they explained

that this area would be addressed through the

Law Society's rules, not the Act. Committee

also learned the Law Society requires cultural

safety training on an annual basis. Upon

learning this, Committee considered this

concern sufficiently addressed.

Public Access to Legal Materials

Page 6464 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

Committee recognizes that the NWT's sole Law

Library was closed due to budgetary reasons,

therefore there was concern that this created a

barrier to public access to legal materials for

residents and legal professionals. While the

Law Society did acknowledge this in their

submissions, they state that the Law

Foundation is granted a mandate under the Act

to establish, maintain, and operate law libraries.

The Society also stated that their organization

does provide public access to legal resources

such as the Legal Resource Center, with the

support of the Department of Justice, and

CanLii, a free online legal database, with the

support of the Federation of Law Societies.

While Committee agreed that the responsibility

of law libraries did not lie with the Law Society,

Committee did identify concerns that law

libraries and support services to improve

access to justice resources are not being made

available through the Department of Justice.

This concern remains.

Regulating Paralegals

Committee wrote to the Minister of Justice on

whether the Department considered including a

provision within Bill 82 to regulate paralegals

and clearly define what a paralegal is and what

they can and cannot do. The Minister did not

see this approach as practical given the limited

number of paralegals in the NWT. Further, the

Minister stated that this type of provision is out

of scope of the Bill, would be too burdensome

on the Law Society, and is better addressed

through the rules of the Law Society itself. Upon

hearing this, Committee considered this

concern sufficiently addressed.

Pro Bono Legal Services

Committee is concerned about changes to the

Law Society membership fee structure within

the legislation for lawyers offering pro bono

legal services to residents. The Minister

indicated that as lawyers are a self-governing

profession, the Law Society retains discretion

over establishing fees through its rules. The

Minister also stated that to protect the Law

Society as a regulator, it is the Department's

view that fees for pro bono services are an

issue that is best addressed within the rules of

the Law Society. Further, the Minister stated

that the Law Society confirmed a willingness to

reduce or waive fees in support of pro bono

services through their rules. Upon hearing this,

Committee considered this concern sufficiently

addressed.

Conclusion

On May 31, 2023, Committee held a clause-by-

clause review. Committee passed a motion to

report Bill 82 to the Legislative Assembly as

ready for consideration in Committee of the

Whole. This concludes the Standing Committee

on Social Development's review of Bill 82:

Legal Profession Act.

MR. SPEAKER: Member for Great Slave.

MS. NOKLEBY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member for

Monfwi, that Committee Report 60-19(2),

Standing Committee on Social Development

Report on the Review of Bill 80: Dental

Hygienists Profession Statute Amendment Act,

be received and adopted by the Assembly.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Great

Slave. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Member for Kam Lake.

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the

Member for Great Slave, that Committee report

58-19(2), Standing Committee on Social

Development Report on the Review of Bill 82:

Legal Professions Act, be received and

adopted by the Assembly. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam

Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Reports of standing and special committees.

Member for Deh Cho.

COMMITTEE REPORT 62-19(2):

REPORT ON BILL 74, FOREST ACT

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Your Standing Committee on Economic

Development and Environment is pleased to

provide its report on Bill 74, Forest Act, and

commends it to the House. Report on Bill 74,

the Forest Act.

Executive Summary

The Standing Committee on Economic

Development and Environment was tasked with

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6465

reviewing Bill 74: Forest Act in the final year of

the 19th Legislative Assembly. Committee

reviewed Government of the Northwest

Territories policies, programs, and legislation

related to forest management as Bill 74 is

intended to change how the GNWT manages

and protects forests, communities, and values

threatened by wildfire. Committee travelled to

four communities during its review and

engaged with stakeholders and the public at

large.

Committee recognizes that Bill 74 is the first

legislation to be developed collaboratively with

Indigenous governments and co-management

bodies in accordance with the

Intergovernmental council on Land and

Resource Management: Legislative

Development Protocol. Bill 74 is also the first

legislation to be reviewed under the "Process

Convention for the Introduction, Consideration

and Enactment of Bills Drafted Pursuant to the

Intergovernmental council Legislative

Development Protocol." While this is a first for

the NWT, the territory is the only jurisdiction in

Canada where the legislative branch of

government reviews laws not just with the

executive branch but also with Indigenous

governments. Committee also considered this

precedent setting legislation, the input we

received, and reflected on the review process

generally. All this information informs a range of

recommendations to the GNWT with the intent

and purpose of improving forest management

and wildfire prevention in the NWT.

Recommendation 1: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that the GNWT undertake an

independent third-party comprehensive review

of GNWT fire prevention and suppression with

public engagement. This review should

consider the policy framework, coordination

with other governments and agencies, funding

for these activities, as well as departmental

practices concerning firefighter safety. The

findings of the review be made publicly

available on a GNWT website.

Recommendation 2: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that the department review what

information it can and should provide regarding

its internal interactive fire databases, its

communication efforts and how information is

presented and organized on its website to

improve access to and knowledge of fire

prevention and suppression activities and

practices.

Recommendation 3: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that there be an annual meeting

between relevant GNWT departmental staff

and each community to review values at risk,

fire prevention and suppression preparedness,

coordination of efforts, and related matters.

Recommendation 4: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that representatives from

technical working groups should meet with

standing committee earlier in the process,

closer to the beginning of the co-drafting

process, to discuss opportunities to share

information on policy options and policy

intentions for resource management legislation.

Recommendation 5: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that if the overall legislative

timeframe allows, there should be the ability to

extend standing committee reviews of resource

management bills to allow for completion of the

collaborative review process.

Recommendation 6: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that exchanges between standing

committees, the departments and technical

working groups on the review of resource

management bills should be made public where

possible and documented in committee reports

on resource management bills.

Recommendation 7: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that Departments undertaking the

co-drafting of resource management legislation

and regulations should secure additional

resources for this process and conduct more

robust public engagement.

Recommendation 8: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that departments undertaking the

co-drafting of resource management legislation

and regulations should share more information

with the public about policy options and policy

intentions and conduct public engagement

earlier in the process (i.e., not wait until the end

of the co-drafting process). Public engagement

can and should run concurrently with the

co-drafting process.

Recommendation 9: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that the Department of

Environment and Climate Change prepare a

detailed budget and work plan for continued

co-development of regulations necessary for a

new Forest Act, allowing for more public

engagement on those regulations and the

implementation of its new responsibilities under

a new Forest Act.

Page 6466 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Deh

Cho. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Member for Deh Cho.

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mr. Speaker, I move,

seconded by the Member for Frame Lake, that

the remainder of the Committee report 62-19(2)

be deemed read and printed in Hansard in its

entirety. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Deh

Cho. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried. Committee

Report 62 is deemed read.

---Carried.

MR. BONNETROUGE:

Introduction

Bill 74: Forest Act (Bill 74) received second

reading on March 9, 2023, and it was referred

to the Standing Committee on Economic

Development and Environment (Committee) for

review. Committee received the approval of the

House to extend its review of the Bill from 120

to 180 days on March 9 to allow for

collaboration with Indigenous governments as

explained below. This review period ended on

August 16, 2023.

Bill 74 combines and modernizes the current

Forest Management Act and Forest Protection

Act. These Acts have not been substantially

changed since the Government of the

Northwest Territories (GNWT) inherited the

legislation from the Government of Canada in

1987. The new Act will modernize the roles and

responsibilities of the GNWT, the Minister of

Environment and Climate Change (ECC),

Renewable Resources Boards, Renewable

Resource Councils, and forest management

committees, and better align with land,

resources and self-government agreements as

well as land use planning.

Bill 74 is intended to improve how the GNWT

manages the following key areas:

• Sustainable forest management and

protection standards;

• Wildfire, and the protection of forests,

communities and values at riskii;

• The roles and responsibilities of the GNWT,

the Minister of ECC, Renewable Resources

Boards, Renewable Resource Councils and

forest management committees; and

• It also redefines and clarifies terminology.

At the end of the 18th Legislative Assembly, the

Department of the Environment and Natural

Resources granted the Committee’s request to

withdraw Bill 44: Forest Act, due to the

“tremendous strain” caused by the large

number of Bills being referred, and the “limited

resources” the Committee had available.

Correspondence from the Premier regarding

“Intergovernmental Council Lessons Learned”

recognized that previous bills did not have time

to work out consistent processes. Virtually all of

Bill 44 has been carried over into Bill 74, but

material has been reorganized and expanded.

Bill 74 is the first Bill to be developed

collaboratively with Indigenous Government

and co-management bodies in accordance with

the Intergovernmental Council on Land and

Resource Management: Legislative

Development Protocol (Protocol). Committee

commends the level of consideration that went

into Bill 74 compared to its predecessor from

the 18th Assembly. Committee recognizes and

appreciates the improved integration of co-

management, strengthened provisions on

Indigenous rights, much better organization

and flow, and that collaboration is now the

foundation for sustainable forestry.

Bill 74 is also the first legislation to be reviewed

under the “Process Convention for the

Introduction, Consideration and Enactment of

Bills Drafted Pursuant to the Intergovernmental

Council Legislative Development Protocol”

(Process Convention). While this is a first for

the NWT, the territory is the only jurisdiction in

Canada where the legislative branch of

government reviews laws not just with the

executive branch but also with Indigenous

Governments. This is how we work together in

the NWT within our unique system of integrated

co-management, consensus government, and

implementation of Indigenous rights.

Pursuant to the Legislative Development

Protocol, the Department of Environment and

Climate Change (the Department) established

a Technical Working Group with representation

from some of the Indigenous Governments to

develop Bill 74. Some of the co-management

bodies were also engaged during this process.

Committee thanks the Intergovernmental

Council Technical Working Group (Technical

Working Group) for their collaborative work on

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6467

Bill 74 pursuant to the Protocol. In highlighting

co-management of forest resources, the use of

Traditional Knowledge and participation in land

management, Committee acknowledges that

elements of Bill 74 correspond to United

Nations Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP) Articles 11, 20,

24, 26, 29, 31, and 32. Following the Technical

Working Group process, the Department

carried out a public engagement using a

discussion paper and allowed public comments

from November 21- December 28, 2022.viii

One submission was received and What We

Heard report was released on March 7, 2023,

by the Department. Committee acknowledges

the hard work of the Department in managing

the legislative development process and public

engagement with limited time and resources.

Committee’s Work on The Bill

Public Engagement

Committee notes public participation in forest

management is the responsibility of the GNWT.

We believe it is important for the Government

to clarify and strengthen the public’s role in

forest management, and especially for those

with established interests (rights holders and

community governments for example). This

approach is consistent with Cabinet’s “Open

Government Policy” and is based on

submissions made during the 18th Assembly

and public engagement with ECC earlier this

year based on the “Summary of Policy

Intentions,” as well as Committee’s own review

of Bill 74.

Committee sought public feedback on the Bill

with public notices and targeted engagement

letters in April.

Committee sent out two sets of stakeholder

letters. The first went to Indigenous

Governments and organizations pursuant to

the Process Convention. The second set

targeted community governments, possible

commercial operations and other

nongovernmental organizations. We received

written submissions from:

• Aurora Wood Pellets,

• Land and Water Boards of the Mackenzie

Valley (LWBs),

• the Wek’eezhiı Renewable Resources Board,

xiv

• the Dehcho Land Use Planning Committee,

• Northwest Territories Association of

Communities (NWTAC),

• and a co-drafted letter from Canadian Parks

and Wilderness Association NWT Chapter and

Alternatives North.

It is important to note that wildfires throughout

the territory affected Committee’s planned

public meetings and that these fires resulted in

evacuations in Hay River and K'atl'odeeche

First Nation on May 14. Committee

rescheduled all travel and held the following in-

person public hearings:

• May 25 – Yellowknife

• June 14 – Whati

• June 15 – Fort Simpson / Liidlii Kue

• June 16 – Enterprise

Collaboration With the GNWT and Technical

Working Group

Development of the Twenty-Eight Motions

Brought Forward by Committee

It is important to note that the Department did

not share any substantive information about the

co-drafting process for Bill 74 while it was under

development despite our requests for sharing

of some information. Committee met with the

Minister and representatives of the Technical

Working Group publicly on April 28, 2023, to

ask questions and seek clarification.

Committee also met in camera with

Departmental staff and representatives of the

Technical Working Group on July 31, 2023, to

discuss Committee’s original motions for

amendments. This was a very useful exchange

and allowed all sides to ask questions, clarify

intentions, and discuss potential solutions.

Committee exchanged letters with the

Government House Leader (GHL) about Bill 74

as follows (appended to this report to extent

permitted by consensus government process

conventions):

• March 23, 2023 SCEDE letter to the GHL to

highlight differences between Bill 74 and Bill 44

from the 18th Assembly, to get information on

the Technical Working Group, any background

research that may have been generated, to find

out which co-management bodies were

engaged in the development of the Bill (GHL

responded to some of the issues raised on April

20, 2023);

• May 10, 2023 SCEDE letter to the GHL to

follow-up on the April 28, 2023 meeting with

questions on 17 areas of potential concern

within the Bill and on s.35 Aboriginal rights

consultations (GHL responded with a June 8,

2023 summary table that is partially disclosed

in Appendix A);

Page 6468 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

• July 12, 2023 SCEDE letter to GHL to follow-

up on forestry policy and practice concerns

raised during the public hearing including fire

prevention activities, GNWT and federal

support, road access during fire emergencies,

access to fire services and insurance,

reforestation practise and policies, coordination

on fire bans, wood cutting practices and

compliance with the United Nations Declaration

on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (GHL

responded on August 11, 2023);

• July 14, 2023 SCEDE letter to the GHL with

37 proposed motions to amend Bill 74 in

response to public submissions and

Committee’s own deliberation with rationale

pursuant to the Process Convention (GHL

responded on August 4, 2023 with an indication

of support for 22 motions and rejection of others

with reasons, summary table in Appendix A);

and

• August 4, 2023 SCEDE letter to the GHL with

notice of six further motions for amendments in

response to concerns and potential solutions

raised by the Department in the July 31 meeting

(the motions were subsequently shared with

the Minister in advance of the clause-by clause

public hearing held on August 11, 2023).

In addition to the formal correspondence, there

were numerous exchanges between

Committee staff, the Law Clerk, departmental

staff and legal counsel and members of the

Technical Working Group. All of this was done

under very tight timelines and Committee

greatly appreciates this work that made

improvements to the Bill possible in a

collaborative fashion. Committee initially

shared thirty-seven draft amendments with

ECC and the Technical Working Group on July

14. These motions were based on public

comments and Committee discussion, and we

are of the view that the amendments brought

forward strengthen Bill 74, especially with

regard to public participation in forest

management. At the clause-by-clause public

hearing held on August 11, 2023, the Minister

concurred with twenty-two of these motions to

amend the Bill.xxiii Committee advanced six

additional motions with which the Minister did

not concur.

What Committee Heard and How Committee

Responded

Public Information

Committee heard during its public meetings in

Whatì, Fort Simpson, and Enterprise, and in

written submissions from NGOs and the NWT

Association of Communities (NWTAC), that the

Minister should make important documents and

decisions on forest management public.

Canadian Parks and Wilderness Association

NWT Chapter (CPAWS) and Alternatives North

(AN) (collectively called non-governmental

organizations or NGOs) and NWTAC

recommended creating a public registry in their

submissions. Committee notes these concerns

were raised during Bill 44 and in the public

engagement by ECC earlier this year. Public

registries were also created in virtually all the

resource management legislation in the 18th

Assembly including the Mineral Resources Act,

Protected Areas Act and more. Regular MLAs

have also worked diligently to ensure greater

public disclosure in other Bills such as the

recent changes to the Elevators and Lifts Act

that now has a public registry.

Committee brought forward motions (2, 4, 14,

26.1 and 26.2) to amend s.14 of Bill 74 by

adding requirements to publish important

documents and decisions on a website

maintained by ECC. Committee prepared an

extensive list of documents and decisions

arising from the Bill and is of the view that all of

this information can and should be made public

with some appropriate conditions around

exemptions for ecological, culturally and

business sensitive information. Following

extensive discussions and exchanges,

Committee, the Department and the Technical

Working Group agreed on a much shorter list of

what information Bill 74 will require to be made

public with a commitment that further

consideration would be given in the regulations

to the other items recommended by Committee.

Committee attempted to further broaden the

scope of documents to be made public to

include forest harvest agreements (with

appropriate protection of sensitive information

consistent with other resource management

legislation and omitted from the agreed upon

motion), fire prevention and preparedness

plans for industrial activities, and for permits

and licences issued for non-personal use

forestry activities (following the Department’s

concerns that publishing personal use permits

and licences would create too much work). The

Minister would not concur with these additions,

so the motion failed at the clause-by-clause

review.

Residents voiced concerns about

accountability for the position of Forest

Superintendent carrying out forest

management, given the broad discretion in Bill

74 as to whether or not forest ecosystem

management plans and the forest monitoring

are developed and implemented. Rather than

make these activities mandatory, Committee

thought another way to introduce greater

accountability and communications would be

for an annual reporting requirement for the

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6469

Forest Superintendent. Committee drafted

motions to amending s.15.1 so that important

activities would be summarized and made

publicly available through an annual report.

There was considerable discussion with ECC

and the Technical Working Group who share

Committee’s view that information about forest

management should be made public. The

Minister would only concur with a basic list of

items to be reported on with further details to be

worked out in regulation.

Committee attempted to broaden the list of

items to be reported on to include research,

basic inspection and enforcement activities

without compromising individual cases so as to

maintain public confidence in departmental

capacity and direction. The Minister would not

concur with these additions at the clause-by-

clause review.

Climate Change

Committee heard comments both in public

hearings and in written submissions about the

effects of the changing climate on the forest

ecosystem. For instance, during a public

hearing in Whatì and Fort Simpson, elders and

Traditional Knowledge keepers spoke about

how forest fires from previous years impacted

local wildlife and caribou migration.

Residents in Fort Simpson commented on the

need to manage the species of trees in NWT

forests, noting more poplar and birch trees

could possibly help prevent out of control forest

fires.

NWTAC noted that practices like wildfire breaks

and fire smarting approaches “become even

more critical as the Wildfire risk increases due

to climate change.” (This was also noted by

CPAWS and AN on page 7 of their submission).

Written submissions from CPAWS and AN

echoed these concerns about the changing

climate in the NWT. Committee understands

that these concerns were raised during the Bill

44 review process during the 18th Assembly,

and as part of public engagement carried out by

ECC in the 19th Assembly.

Committee considered carefully where climate

change considerations would best fit within Bill

74 and decided this issue should be part of

forest ecosystem management plans and

monitoring of the state of the forest ecosystem.

Committee therefore recommended amending

s.24 and 26 of Bill 74 (Motions 6 and 12). The

Minister concurred with these motions at the

clause-by-clause.

Public Engagement

Based on what we heard from residents in

communities and the NGO and NWTAC written

submissions, Committee is of the view that

public engagement is a key theme for both

forest management as envisioned in Bill 74 and

future regulations. This is a public government

responsibility and consistent with Cabinet’s

approved Open Government Policy. Committee

notes that public engagement requirements

were also added to other resource

management bills brought forward in the last

Assembly. Committee supported amendments

(Motions 7 and 8) to ensure more public

engagement during the development of forest

ecosystem management plans in s.24(2) and

for forest harvesting agreements where no

forest ecosystem management plan exists.

Committee is of the view that public

engagement on forest ecosystem management

plans is not a substitute for public engagement

that should be required for all forest harvesting

agreements. Best practices and Cabinet’s

Open Government Policy should ensure that

public engagement takes place any time

important resource management decisions are

made, including exclusive rights to harvest

forests.

The lack of consideration of community

governments in Bill 74 was noted by Committee

in its initial review. This issue was initially raised

during the review process for Bill 44 during the

18th Assembly, and in the public engagement

conducted by ECC earlier this year. NWTAC

also raised this concern in its written

submission to Committee. For instance, under

Bill 74, the review of wildfire prevention and

preparedness plans required for some owners

or operators of industrial activities is one area

that would benefit from community government

input. If a fire starts for whatever reason in or

near a community, their resources are often

called on for assistance. Committee therefore

believes it is important that community

governments be engaged during the

development and/or review of these plans.

Committee drafted motions to ensure this

collaboration would take place on wildfire

prevention and preparedness plans. The

Technical Working Group responded with

changes that were less definitive and said the

details could be worked out in regulations.

Committee noted that this counterproposal

would place the onus on the owner or operator

of the industrial activity to circulate proposed

plans to community governments when this

should really be the responsibility of the Forest

Superintendent who ultimately approves the

plans. Committee also noted that there was no

process identified for amending plans part way

through a season and no deadlines for the

submission and review of plans. Committee

Page 6470 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

therefore proposed Motions 27.01 and 27.2 to

specify regulation-making authority to cover

these two areas, but the Minister would not

concur at the clause-by-clause review.

Consistency of Forest Management

Decisions Committee pointed to the need for

consistency between forest ecosystem

management plans (FEMPs), forest harvesting

agreements, and permits and licences that

authorize specific activities. This is consistent

with the purpose of Bill 74 which establishes

FEMPs as the foundation for sustainable forest

management. Once plans are developed and

agreed to, they should be followed. Committee

brought forward Motions 10 and 16 which the

Minister concurred with at the clause-by-

clause.

Another area of major concern Committee

heard was the need to provide clarity and

certainty around land use planning in relation to

forest management. This issue was raised

during the review of Bill 44 during the 18th

Assembly, and earlier in the 19th Assembly

during the ECC public engagement, as well as

in written submissions from NWTAC and the

NGOs.

Additionally, Committee received a submission

from the Dehcho Land Use Planning

Committee (DLUPC), noting that the Bill “does

not speak to authority of approved and legally

binding land use plans to restrict the Minister or

Forest Superintendent to authorize the use of

forest resources.” NWTAC noted that forest

management decisions should be consistent

with “various types of community bylaws,

including but not limited to, General Plans and

Zoning By-laws, fire prevention by-laws, tree

harvesting by-laws, soil protection by-laws,

open air burning by-laws” among others. This

issue was also raised by the mayors and

councillors during public hearings in Fort

Simpson and Enterprise.

Committee is of the view that Bill 74 needed to

be consistent with land use planning in the

NWT and any applicable bylaws, and thus

recommended adding a subsection to s. 5

outlining this in our original Motion 1.

Committee’s original motion provided for a

board definition for land use plans enacted

under any federal or territorial legislation. This

included community plans and zoning bylaws

under the Community Planning and

Development Act. However, ECC and the

Technical Working Group preferred a more

general approach for consistency of forest

management decisions with legally binding

land use plans as shown in Motion 16. The

Minister concurred with this motion at the

clause-by-clause.

Committee did, however, move a further motion

16.1, adding the need for consistency with

zoning bylaws with which the Minister did not

concur. Committee is disappointed that there

will now be considerable uncertainty as to the

status of zoning bylaws under Bill 74 and

whether they could or should constrain the

issuance of permits or licences for forestry

activities within municipal boundaries.

Committee is of the view that if land use plans

under federal legislation are accorded status,

so should municipal plans and zoning bylaws

under territorial legislation. Committee also

notes that there appears to be some

misunderstanding on the part of GNWT as to

purpose and authority of zoning bylaws which

can regulate land uses (including forestry

activities). According to the Community

Planning and Development Act, s.18(1) “A

zoning bylaw may include provisions respecting

one or more of the following matters, either

generally or with respect to any zone or part of

a zone: […] (o) the cutting of trees; (p) the

preservation of habitat;” this is important to

note.

Lastly, the NGOs in their written submission

recommended including the Statement of

Environmental Values (SEVs) be included in

the Bill in the preamble. Unfortunately, after

second reading of a Bill it is difficult to change

its purpose or preamble. Committee was of the

view that a more appropriate place in Bill 74

would be s.12(2) which sets out the way in

which the Minister will carry out their authority.

Committee is of the view incorporation of the

SEVs would be a helpful addition in beginning

to implement the Environmental Rights Act.

This amendment would also ensure

consideration of some helpful environmental

principles such as polluter pays and even

UNDRIP which are part of the SEVs. However,

the Technical Working Group rejected this

amendment during collaboration and

Committee decided not to pursue it any further.

Application of the Bill and Surface Interest

Holders

Committee noted in its initial review of Bill 74

that this legislation would be a law of general

application, and that there is no clarity as to how

it would apply to or be implemented on privately

owned lands and land where there may be

surface interests including leases. This issue is

further complicated as some surface leases in

the NWT reserve to the Crown the right to use

of forests. This is similar to the Crown reserving

subsurface or mineral rights. Committee notes

that this issue was also raised by the NGOs

during the ECC public engagement earlier this

year, and the Department’s response was that

the issue would be dealt with in regulation. This

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6471

lack of clarity may not provide much comfort or

reassurance to those with surface interests and

reiterates the importance of more public

engagement during the regulation making

process.

Committee brought forward a series of motions

requiring the Department to engage what we

called in Committee discussions, and what

CPAWS and AN referred to in their written

submission as, “surface rights holders.”

Committee recognizes that whatever

contractual rights surface lease holders may

have are not equivalent to or of the same nature

as Indigenous rights. Committee is also aware

of the legislative regime in place for surface

rights holders with regard to mineral rights

administration under the territorial Surface

Rights Board Act.

Committee developed a series of motions to

ensure that the views of surface interest holders

would be adequately considered during the

forest management process and decisions.

Motions 11 and 18 proposed language after

s.25(6) to engage surface rights holders in

discussions about forest harvesting

agreements and other issues that could affect

them. Motions 16.1 and 17 suggested a “Notice

of Application” and “Notice of issuance”

regarding permits and licenses that might affect

surface rights holders. Concerning s.62(1) and

s.66, Committee brought forward further

amendments to clarify surface rights holders’

right to appeal. However, during discussions

with ECC and the Technical Working Group,

Committee received both written and verbal

assurances that current and future practices

would not allow for licences or permits on

privately owned or leased land unless initiated

by or for the owner or with their consent. The

Technical Working Group also said that the

issue of surface interest holders and how Bill 74

would apply to them is a complicated matter

requiring further study and consideration and

could not be completed within the available

timelines.

Committee agreed to forgo pursuing these

motions having received assurances that this

issue would be dealt with in a fair and thoughtful

manner in the regulations.

Appeal Processes

Committee’s initial review of Bill 74 revealed

some potential problems with appeal processes

as drafted. For example, it was unclear whether

it was actually the intention to include potential

appeals of inspection and enforcement actions

when such matters may require some urgency

and a better recourse may be the courts. It was

also unclear why and when an adjudicator may

be chosen and whether that person could be an

ECC employee. The NGO submission received

by Committee also recommended a number of

changes to the appeal processes.

Motions 21, 22, and 23 were driven by

uncertainty in the appeal mechanisms in Bill 74

as drafted. The proposed amendments

Committee brought forward more clearly define

the role of the Forest Superintendent and the

Minister, to encourage fairness, transparency,

and consistency in decision-making. The GHL

also acknowledged that these sections needed

improvement. After discussions with ECC and

the Technical Working Group, Committee

agreed to pursue Motions 21 and 31 at the

clause-by-clause review, which the Minister

concurred with. Motion 23 was deemed

unnecessary and dropped.

Proof of Identification for Indigenous

Citizens

Committee heard concerns during the public

hearings from Indigenous residents questioning

if and whether they would have to obtain

permits or licences for traditional activities.

Indigenous Governments stated very clearly

during the review of Bill 44 in the 18th Assembly

that such permits and licences were

inconsistent with Indigenous rights. Bill 74

contains a clear exemption for Indigenous

citizens from having to get permits or licences,

but Committee noted that the wording of s.50(4)

as drafted would require the immediate

production of identification of Indigenous

citizens claiming a right to harvest. Committee

remains of the view that a reasonable period of

time to produce documentation should be an

option as not everyone carries identification

when in the bush. A motion was prepared by

Committee and shared with the Technical

Working Group. They also identified the need

to recognize regional differences and methods

of checking Indigenous rights. Committee along

with the Technical Working Group and

representatives from Indigenous Governments

worked together to find solutions that were

moved as Motion 19 to resolve these issues.

The Minister concurred with these changes at

the clause-by-clause review.

Public Engagement on Regulations

The issue of public engagement in the

development of regulations related to new

resource management was a consistent theme

in the 18th Assembly. Many of the resource

management Bills contain broad frameworks

and processes with many of the details left to

regulations and the discretion of Cabinet and/or

Ministers. Committee received submissions

from NGOs and the NWTAC that raised the

issue of inadequate public engagement on Bill

74. These organizations also specifically

Page 6472 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

requested opportunities for public engagement

on the development of any regulations to

implement Bill 74.

Committee noted that the petroleum resources

Bills from the 18th Assembly contain public

engagement requirement for regulations, even

if this was a hold-over from the federal pre-

devolution legislation. Committee is also aware

that public engagement provisions were built

into the Child Day Care Act (s.47(2)) in the 19th

Assembly and received Ministerial

concurrence. In discussions with Committee,

ECC staff noted that there is already a

government-wide approach to public

engagement on regulations called the Cabinet

Operational Guidelines (found as Appendix

4.11 of the Executive Council Submissions

Handbook). Committee noted that under this

policy, publication and comment periods for

regulations are at the total discretion of each

Minister.

Committee is of the view that Bill 74 is not a

regular or ordinary Bill given that it was

codrafted pursuant to the Legislative

Development Protocol. The Bill also received

special treatment during its review by

Committee pursuant to the new Process

Convention. There is also strong public interest

in the content and substance of the Bill,

particularly sustainable forestry, and fire

management. A government-wide approach is

not appropriate or desirable for the

development of the regulations and public

engagement should not just be encouraged, it

should be required. Committee proposed

Motion 32 at the clause-by-clause review, but

the Minister did not concur.

Other Matters

Committee received submissions for a number

of other changes to the Bill and identified some

minor technical corrections that should be

made. These are summarized below:

• An amendment to remove some superfluous

wording in s.7 on the purpose of the Bill, to

ensure a focus on collaborative management

rather working relationships (recommended by

the NGOs, developed as Motion 4.1 which

received Ministerial concurrence);

• A new requirement for written reasons where

the Minister determines it is necessary to take

action on forestry matters where there is no

consensus with Indigenous Governments

(proposed by the Wek’eezhii Land and Water

Board, developed as Motion 5 which received

Ministerial concurrence);

• A correction to the terminology used in s. 25(2)

(Motion 9 proposed by Committee which

received Ministerial concurrence);

• A correction to the terminology used in s.29(3)

(Motion 10 proposed by Committee and

received Ministerial concurrence);

• Consistent approach to public notice for a

number of actions by the Forest Superintendent

(recommended by the NGOs, developed as

Motion 14 which received Ministerial

concurrence)

Matters Raised Outside the Scope of The

Bill

Committee heard about many issues during the

public hearings regarding fire prevention and

fire suppression policies and practices. This is

completely understandable given the

devastating summer fire season NWT residents

are experiencing in 2023 and the widespread

evacuations across the territory that due to

wildfires. Committee also recognizes the

outstanding dedication of our fire fighters and

those assisting us and all the GNWT staff and

others supporting those efforts. The fires have

had a profound impact on us all and have

resulted in the loss of life, homes, and

businesses.

Given the severity of the 2023 fire season and

the changing ecology of fires largely driven by

climate change, it would be wise to conduct a

lessons learned exercise following the end of

the current season. This review must include

the fire fighters and other support staff. Such

was the case in 2014 following another severe

season when a comprehensive internal review

was undertaken. Committee is of the view that

an independent review of our fire prevention

and fire suppression policy framework and

practices should take place and makes the

following recommendation.

Recommendation 1: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that the GNWT undertake an

independent, third-party comprehensive review

of GNWT fire prevention and suppression with

public engagement. This review should

consider the policy framework, coordination

with other governments and agencies, funding

for these activities, as well as Departmental

practices concerning firefighter safety. The

findings of the review be made publicly

available on a GNWT website.

Committee heard a variety of concerns and

issues related to specific fire prevention and

fire-fighting operational practices. Traditional

Knowledge keepers who attended the public

meeting in Fort Simpson spoke about the

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6473

importance of forest renewal. Attendees at the

hearings in Fort Simpson and Enterprise also

asked for more information about forest

management and replanting practices. Another

area of concern identified was the need to

provide clarity and certainty with respect to fire

suppression crews in remote communities. In

Whatì, Committee heard from residents about

forest fire prevention and better forest

management. Residents discussed the need

for the Department to respond to fires faster in

the Tłicho region. Residents noted that money

and the creation of local fire crews will lead to

more employment and a safer community.

Sonny Zoe (councillor, and a member of the

Tłicho Government) spoke to Committee about

how the people of Whatì depend on the forest

and referenced recent fire-related evacuations

in the NWT, noting “each community should

have a [local] forest fire suppression team.”

Many of these concerns raised to Committee

are well beyond the scope of Bill 74 and

Committee did not have sufficient time or

resources to conduct a thorough review of

these matters. As part of the independent

review as recommended above, the issue of

fire-fighting capacity in each community, and

implementation of NWT-wide teams and

establishment of and access to national

team(s) should be considered.

Committee also learned of graphic interactive

fire databases that are very detailed and

available internally to the Department as the

result of a visit to the Fort Simpson office.

Committee thanks Jamie Chambers, ECC

Dehcho Regional Superintendent for hosting

our visit and showing us firsthand some of the

assets and tools available. Committee

appreciates that the Department has also has a

lot of information on its website with regard to

fire prevention and fire suppression:

• All communities below treeline have a publicly

available Wildfire Prevention Plan;

• Recently added fire-smarting information for

individual home and cabin owners;

• And other helpful information for protecting

communities and national review processes for

fire prevention and suppression

However, Committee heard that communities

and their residents do not know about this sort

of information and may not be using it.

Committee fully recognizes that Departmental

staff are currently focusing on our severe fire

situation but there is a need for improved

access to information on fire prevention and

suppression and better communications.

Recommendation 2: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that the Department review what

information it can and should provide regarding

its internal interactive fire databases, its

communication efforts and how information is

presented and organized on its website to

improve access to and knowledge of fire

prevention and suppression activities and

practices.

Whati residents are still seeing the effects of the

2014 fire that threatened the community. They

noted the current firebreak is overgrown and

too close to the community. A fire at the current

line would put the dump and other infrastructure

at risk. Residents noted it should be bigger and

further away, and that they need more money

for fire prevention and fire smarting to protect

community values, especially the forest on the

west side of the lake which did not burn in 2014.

This is of high importance to the forest

ecosystem because it provides habitation for

local wildlife and migrating caribou. Residents

also expressed uncertainty about the locations

of historic fires in the region.

Recommendation 3: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that there be an annual meeting

between relevant GNWT departmental staff

and each community to review values at risk,

fire prevention and suppression preparedness,

coordination of efforts and related matters.

Observations on the Process and Next

Steps

The co-drafting process appeared to work well

with Indigenous Governments and

comanagement bodies that participated.

Committee recognizes the immense amount of

time and effort that went into the development

of Bill 74 and the improvements that were made

compared to Bill 44 from the 18th Assembly,

particularly in integrating comanagement and a

collaborative approach to decision-making.

However, a number of important Indigenous

Governments did not participate. For example,

the Dehcho First Nations and Akaitcho Territory

government do not appear to have been

directly involved. Committee understands that

there are also capacity issues for Indigenous

Governments and co-management bodies. A

number of co-management bodies do not

appear to have been engaged (the land use

planning boards and Deh Cho Land Use

Planning Committee).

Despite requests from Committee for an

opportunity to discuss what might be shared

with Committee during the co-drafting process,

the Department did not share any information

with us beyond what was publicly available: no

Page 6474 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

policy options, policy intentions or rationale for

approaches were shared.

If information on policy options and policy

intentions could be shared earlier than the

receipt of a Bill, this would reduce the amount

of time spent on understanding how issues are

dealt with during the review of a Bill. There were

several significant areas of concern for

Committee and the public: coordination with

land use planning, annual reporting, a public

registry, surface interest holders, collaboration

with municipal governments and others. All

involved could have benefited from earlier

communication, information exchanges, and

more time.

Recommendation 4: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that representatives from

Technical Working Groups should meet with

Standing Committee earlier in the process,

closer to the beginning of the co-drafting

process, to discuss opportunities to share

information on policy options and policy

intentions for resource management legislation.

The co-drafting process took a lot of time and

energy but pushed Bill 74 to the end of the term

of the 19th Assembly. The timelines set out in

the Process Convention are very tight. Further

progress may have been on possible on some

issues had there been more time allowed under

the Process Convention for this kind of

collaborative review.

Recommendation 5: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that if the overall legislative

timeframe allows, there should be the ability to

extend Standing Committee reviews of

resource management Bills to allow for

completion of the collaborative review process.

Recommendation 6: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that exchanges between

Standing Committees, the Departments and

Technical Working Groups on the review of

resource management Bills should be made

public where possible and documented in

Committee reports on resource management

Bills.

On the issue of resourcing, Committee notes

that GNWT received a permanent and indexed

offset as part of the Territorial Formula Funding

arrangement of $24 million in 1987 during the

devolution of forestry responsibilities from the

federal government. In 2023, the value of this

offset is roughly $55 million according to the

Department. The Department usually spends

about $35 million annually on forestry, including

wildfire suppression. While there are some

years where significant additional resources

are required for fires such as this 2023 season,

and while some of this money may be

recoverable from the federal government as

part of emergency response, not all the funds

secured through forestry devolution appear to

be spent on forest management.

Committee notes that concerns were raised in

the 18th and 19th Assemblies about the

resourcing of Departments for co-drafting and

public engagement for resource management

legislation. The Department informed

Committee that the Forest Act review and

engagement would be conducted using internal

resources. Committee notes that the

Department of Industry, Tourism and

Investment (ITI) has been very successful in

acquiring additional resources for staffing and

for the development of regulations to implement

the Mineral Resources Act. ITI has also

secured an additional $3.7 million for the

Mineral Administration and Registry System

(MAARS) which will include a public registry

component. Resourcing of the Department for

the co-drafting process appears to have limited

public engagement which was abbreviated and

left to the end of the process.

Several important issues were raised during the

review of Bill 44 in the 18th Assembly and

persisted during the review Bill 74 in the 19th

Assembly. For example, a public registry - or

public access to important documents and

decisions – and public reporting on key

activities have been raised numerous times but

were not dealt with in Bill 74 as drafted.

Committee is of the view that the public

engagement undertaken as part of Bill 74 was

not adequate. The public engagement can and

should be conducted concurrently with the co-

drafting process.

Recommendation 7: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that Departments undertaking the

co-drafting of resource management legislation

and regulations should secure additional

resources for this process and conduct more

robust public engagement.

Recommendation 8: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that Departments undertaking the

co-drafting of resource management legislation

and regulations should share more information

with the public about policy options and policy

intentions and conduct public engagement

earlier in the process (i.e., not wait until the end

of the co-drafting process). Public engagement

can and should run concurrently with the co-

drafting process.

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6475

The department will take on significant new

forest management responsibilities as a result

of Bill 74, especially in the areas of creating and

implementing forest ecosystem management

plans, collaboration with Indigenous

governments and co-management bodies,

making more information public and annual

reporting, and much more. Committee notes

that the last publicly available map showing

forest vegetation management inventory is

dates 2015. There does not appear to be much

research or forest inventory work publicly

available. The 2019 Forest Health Report and

2020 Forest Health Report were released in

March 2022. The status of overall forest

management research and inventory work is

not clear.

Additional resources are clearly needed to

ensure forest inventory and planning work that

is required to identify areas for sustainable

forest harvesting. With these areas and

opportunities identified, new economic

diversification can and should take place, with

government supports where necessary. New

forestry operations can create jobs in all of our

communities by replacing much of the timber

and forest products we currently import. Bill 74

sets the stage for sustainable forestry and new

business opportunities. The Department needs

to ensure it has the resources and business

cases in hand to make this happen.

Recommendation 9: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that the Department of

Environment and Climate Change prepare a

detailed budget and work plan for continued co-

development of regulations necessary for a

new Forest Act, allowing for more public

engagement on those regulations, and the

implementation of its new responsibilities under

a new Forest Act.

Conclusion

Committee sincerely thanks all those who

participated in the development and review of

Bill 74 Forest Act. The new Process Convention

has worked and should continue into the next

Assembly. This concludes Standing

Committee’s review of Bill 74: Forest Act.

Typically, Committee includes a

recommendation in each report requesting a

response from government within 120 days.

The recommendation is then moved as a

motion in the House and Cabinet is required to

respond. However, since the 19th Legislative

Assembly will dissolve in less than 120 days,

Committee requests that the government

provide a public response to this report at the

earliest opportunity.

MR. SPEAKER: Reports of standing and

special committees. Member for Kam Lake.

COMMITTEE REPORT 61-19(2):

REPORT ON BILL 81, AN ACT TO AMEND

THE EDUCATION ACT, NO. 2

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your Standing

Committee on Social Development is pleased

to provide its Report on the Review of Bill 81,

An Act to Amend the Education Act, No. 2, and

commends it to the House.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member

for Great Slave, that the entirety of this report

be deemed read and printed in Hansard in its

entirety. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam

Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried.

---Carried.

MS. CLEVELAND:

Introduction

Bill 81: An Act to Amend the Education Act, No.

2 (Bill 81) received second reading on March

30, 2023 and was referred to the Standing

Committee on Social Development

(Committee) for review. Bill 81 makes changes

to the Education Act (Act). The Department of

Education, Culture and Employment (ECE)

took what they referred to as a phased

approach to legislative changes. Phase 1

focuses on operational and administrative

amendments designed to improve the existing

system within the life of the 19th Assembly.

According to ECE, Phase 2 will focus on

education system structure and governance

amendments in the 20th or a later Assembly.

Phase 1 amendments recognize the role of

Indigenous governments in education; seek to

clarify roles and responsibilities between the

Minister of Education, Culture and Employment

(Minister) and education bodies; protect

parental consent in student grade placement

and education program modification decisions;

mandate for student transportation; and

supporting information sharing among

education bodies. These amendments respond

to the findings and recommendations from the

2020 February Report of the Auditor General of

Canada to the Northwest Territories Legislative

Assembly.

Page 6476 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

Members of the Committee, Indigenous

Governments, Dene Nation, and many

residents of the Northwest Territories (NWT)

were disappointed with a phased approach,

sharing that it did not allow for a more thorough

engagement process with holistic and

meaningful changes to address the uneven and

poor state of education in the territory. In

response, Committee sought and gained a

verbal commitment from the Minister that

Phase 2 will include a robust engagement

process resulting in substantive amendments

to the Act aimed at improving educational

outcomes of NWT students.

Committee Considered Public Input

Committee sought public feedback on Bill 81

with a public notice, targeted engagement

letters, and in-person engagement. Committee

had face-to-face meetings with:

• Beaufort Delta Divisional Education Council

• Behdzi Ahda’ First Nation

• Community members of Delįne

• Community members of Inuvik

• Community members of Norman Wells

• Deline Got'ine Government

• Norman Wells Land Corporation

• Sahtu Divisional Education Council

• Yellowknife Education District No. 1

Committee received written submissions from:

• Behdzi Ahda’ First Nation

• Commission Scolaire Francophone des

Territoires du Nord-Quest

• Deline Got'ine Government

• Dene Nation

• Mary Ann Villeneuve

• Ndilo District Education Authority

• Yellowknife Education District No. 1

All written submissions are included in an

Appendix to this report.

Public Review

Committee held a public review of Bill 81 on

May 31, 2023. At that meeting, Committee

heard remarks from the Minister, and asked

questions to the Minister and ECE officials

regarding concerns with the phased legislative

approach; engagement with Indigenous

governments; mandate for student

transportation; parental consent in student

grade placement and education program

modification; “social passing”; roles and

responsibilities of education bodies; and

students’ readiness to attend university,

especially students in the small communities.

Committee also heard from David Wasylciw,

Chairperson for Yellowknife Education District

No.1, at the public review. Mr. Wasylciw

highlighted concerns with the mandate for

student transportation, including the budgetary

impact on education bodies.

Summary of Public Concerns

Committee received an abundance of

comments and concerns from Indigenous

Governments, Dene Nation, residents of the

NWT and education bodies across the NWT on

the proposed legislative amendments to Bill 81,

and more broadly on education in the NWT. In

summary, these included, but are not limited to:

- Disagreement with a phased legislative

approach. Amendments are inadequate and do

not effectively address changes to the uneven

and poor state of education in the NWT;

- Flawed stakeholder engagement process;

- Need for trauma-informed approaches in

legislative drafting and engagement;

- Roles and responsibilities of education bodies

are unclear and lack accountability, including at

the Ministerial level;

- Lack of support for mandatory student

transportation;

- Indigenous governments’ want a more

meaningful role in education;

- Extent of parental engagement sought for

consent of grade placement and education

program modification currently does not go far

enough;

- Need to prevent the misuse of social passing;

- Absenteeism;

- Lack of supports for students with disabilities;

- Barriers for contracting teachers in small

communities;

- Desire for local teachers and administrators;

- Curriculum is not rigorous;

- Curriculum needs to reflect local Indigenous

knowledge and be made available/translated in

Indigenous languages; and

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6477

- Overall, parents are highly concerned that

students are not being taught at their grade

level and do not graduate ready to attend post-

secondary institutions.

In response to the quantity and substantive

nature of comments and concerns received,

Committee advanced five motions with

amendments to Bill 81. Committee also makes

recommendations that are considered out of

scope for the current legislation and is more

appropriate for consideration in Phase 2.

Committee Amended Five Clauses

Education Program Modification

Committee is concerned the extent of parental

engagement sought for grade placement and

education program modification does not go far

enough. In many cases, students have been

placed or “socially passed”, rather than

promoted, into higher grade levels without

parental support. Parents have been surprised

and angry to learn of these changes without

their active consent. Clause 12.1 of Bill 81 are

amended to expand the type of decisions a

parent can make, including disagreement and

complaint to the District Education Authority, as

it relates to a student’s education program

modification.

Student Transportation

Stakeholders expressed serious disagreement

with a provision to make the delivery of student

transportation mandatory given the capacities

of education bodies; communities; schools;

labour shortages; inflation and rising costs; lack

of storage infrastructure; lack of access to

mechanics, automotive, and other parts; and a

general lack of funding to provide

transportation. Clause 26, Clause 27, and

Clause 33 of Bill 81 is amended by removing

the provision to make the delivery of student

transportation mandatory.

Oversight Committee

Stakeholders supported the Minister

establishing an ad hoc oversight committee to

identify opportunities to improve the delivery of

the education system and support

implementation of those improvements. Behdzi

Ahda’ First Nation added that Indigenous

governments should be informed when an

oversight committee is active. Clause 30 of Bill

81 is amended to provide notice to any

Indigenous government having Aboriginal or

treaty rights in the area over which the oversight

committee’s power and duties extended; and to

provide a terms of reference for the

participation of an Indigenous government in

the work of the oversight committee.

Committee’s Recommendations for Phase 2

Approximately 8,600 students across the

territory have vastly different experiences in the

NWT’s 49 schools. Stakeholders shared that

educational experiences across the NWT are

uneven. Yellowknife and regional centres are

considered resource-rich having, with greater

access to experienced teachers and

administration, sports and extracurricular

activities, and sound schools with supporting

infrastructure. In contrast, schools in the small

communities are inadequately funded, with

many schools in dire need of repairs,

renovations or replacements. As a result,

Indigenous governments and members in the

small communities shared that their children

and youth are routinely marginalized in the

NWT’s educational system, which results in

lower educational outcomes and a lack of

readiness for post-secondary institutions. For

example, in the 2020-2021 school year, 74% of

high school students in Yellowknife graduated

grade twelve, compared to just 45% in the small

communities. Stakeholders discussed the

negative impact this had on students, their

families, and communities. In some cases,

leading to poor mental health, substance abuse

and addiction, and premature death.

Committee is highly concerned that the NWT

education system is not supported to set

students up for educational achievement and

lifelong success after high school.

Engagement Process

Stakeholders shared that the engagement

process facilitated by ECE was flawed citing

that the language in Bill 81, and the plain

language and supplementary materials were

difficult to understand and amendments were

unclear. Not enough time was provided to allow

for meaningful feedback. Further, Indigenous

governments want meaningful engagement;

face-to-face meetings; and Ministerial visits to

the communities to meet youth, students,

community members, elders, and to see

schools firsthand. It was emphasized that youth

need to be engaged as a special group on the

Act.

Committee therefore recommends:

Recommendation 1: The Department of

Education, Culture and Employment create a

stakeholder plan that prioritizes meaningful

engagement and face-to-face meetings with

Indigenous governments, youth, students,

community members, and elders.

Administrative Focus

In addition to dissatisfaction with the

engagement process, stakeholders

Page 6478 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

overwhelmingly shared that a phased approach

to legislative amendments was wrong.

Proposed administrative amendments do not

effectively address the changes needed in the

Act to improve educational outcomes for NWT

students. Phase 1 does not include

amendments that address absenteeism;

educational outcomes for students; increased

readiness for university; supports for students

with disabilities; the curriculum; on the land

programming; trades programming; wrap-

around supports for students; trauma-informed

approaches; need for local and Indigenous

teachers; and new infrastructure and schools.

Committee therefore recommends:

Recommendation 2: The Department of

Education, Culture and Employment draft

aspirational legislation for its next iteration of

the Education Act that takes a holistic, trauma-

informed, and culturally responsive approach to

education that is accountable to all NWT

communities, its residents, and most of all its

youth.

Absenteeism

Community members, and in particular parents,

identified the issue of chronic absenteeism

impacting students’ educational outcomes in

the NWT. Community members shared various

reasons why students may not attend school,

including lack of parental or other caregiver

support, unstable home environments, and/or

having responsibilities in their families that take

priority over school. ECE has identified causes

of absenteeism in numerous reports and

initiatives over the decades. Committee wants

to build on the strengths of NWT students and

communities and calls on coordinated

strategies between communities, education

bodies, and schools.

Committee therefore recommends:

Recommendation 3: The Department of

Education, Culture and Employment work with

education bodies and schools to promote

school attendance by building on community

strengths and parental involvement.

Wrap Around Services

Stakeholders shared that schools are natural

hubs where wrap-around services are needed

and can be effectively delivered. Schools that

deliver a coordinated suite of health and social

services, after-school programs, and

engagement with families and communities are

better positioned to meet the holistic needs of

students and families in real-time. This is a

model for supporting equity in education.

Committee therefore recommends:

Recommendation 4: The Department of

Education, Culture and Employment build a

northern-specific model of coordinated wrap-

around services for NWT schools.

Supports for Students

Stakeholders from all communities expressed a

serious need for supports for students.

Committee hears about the need for supports

for students with physical and invisible

disabilities. Educators and staff lack training

and tools necessary to support students with

disabilities access meaningful education. In

addition, people raised concerns about the lack

of adequate data collection on students with

disabilities to inform evidence-based decision-

making to support students with disabilities

best.

In addition to student supports and staff training

to provide meaningful and accessible education

for students with diagnosed disabilities, people

also expressed frustration around inclusive

schooling. The leading frustration that

Committee heard about was “social passing,”

the process of moving students to a higher

grade to keep them with their peers regardless

of whether they met grade level requirements.

This is considered a best practice in education.

However, its success relies on student access

to additional support to work toward grade-level

requirements. Time and time again, Committee

heard from communities that these educational

supports are not available in their schools and

they need the help of ECE to make education

accessible with a robust suite of classroom

supports that help all NWT students achieve

greater educational outcomes that prepare

them for life after high school.

Committee therefore recommends:

Recommendation 5: The Department of

Education, Culture and Employment:

A. Increase funding and expand professional

development opportunities for staff to best

support students with disabilities;

B. Expand the suite of programs and services

available to students with disabilities in their

home communities; and

C. Improve data collection as it relates to

students with disabilities.

Recommendation 6: The Department of

Education, Culture and Employment review the

Territorial Based Support Team function to

ensure teachers and students receive the

support they need in a way that meets the

community’s needs and establish outcome-

focused measures to determine if the team is

achieving its goals.

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6479

Typically, Committee includes a

recommendation in each report requesting a

response from government within 120 days.

The recommendation is then moved as a

motion in the House and Cabinet is required to

respond. However, since the 19th Legislative

Assembly will dissolve in less than 120 days,

Committee has decided to leave out this

recommendation and request that the

government provide a public response to this

report, even of a preliminary nature, before the

beginning of the 20th Assembly.

Conclusion

On August 15, 2023, Committee held a clause-

by-clause review4. Committee passed the

motions to report Bill 81 as amended to the

Legislative Assembly and ready for

consideration in Committee of the Whole. This

concludes the Standing Committee on Social

Development’s review of Bill 81.

MR. SPEAKER: Reports of standing and

special committees. Member for Deh Cho.

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mr. Speaker, I move,

seconded by the Member for Frame Lake, that

Committee report 62-19(2), Standing

Committee on Economic Development and

Environment Report on the Review of Bill 74:

Forest Act, be received by the Assembly and

referred to Committee of the Whole. Mahsi, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Deh

Cho. The motion is in order. To the motion?

Question has been called. All those in favour?

All those opposed? Any abstentions? The

motion is carried.

---Carried

Reports of standing and special committees.

Member for Kam Lake.

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member

for Great Slave, that Committee report

61-19(2), Standing Committee on Social

Development Report on the Review of Bill 81:

An Act to Amend the Education Act, No. 2, be

received by the Assembly and referred to

Committee of the Whole. Thank you, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Kam

Lake. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried. Committee

report is deemed read.

Reports of standing and special committees.

Member for Kam Lake.

MS. CLEVELAND: I have nothing else.

MR. SPEAKER: Reports of standing and

special committees. Member for Deh Cho.

COMMITTEE REPORT 63-19(2):

REPORT ON BILL 78, WASTE REDUCTION

AND RESOURCE RECOVERY ACT

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mr. Speaker, your

Standing Committee on Economic

Development and Environment is pleased to

provide its Report on Review of Bill 78: Waste

Reduction and Resource Recovery Act.

And, Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the

Member for Frame Lake, that Committee report

63-19(2), Standing Committee on Economic

Development and Environment Report on the

Review of Bill 78: Waste Reduction and

Resource Recovery Act, be deemed read and

printed in Hansard in its entirety.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Deh

Cho. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried. Committee

report 78 is deemed read.

---Carried.

MR. BONNETROUGE:

Introduction

Bill 78: Waste Reduction and Resource

Recovery Acti (Bill 78) received second reading

on March 29, 2023, and was referred to the

Standing Committee on Economic

Development and Environment (Committee) for

review. Bill 78 repeals and replaces the Waste

Reduction and Recovery Act (Act), which has

only had minor amendments since coming into

force in 2003.

Bill 78 is intended to improve how the

Government of the Northwest Territories

(GNWT) manages waste reduction and

resource recovery in the NWT by broadening

the regulatory framework in accordance with

GNWT’s June 2019 Waste Resource

Management Strategy and Implementation

Plan, which set out the goals of preventing

waste at the source, diverting waste from

Page 6480 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

disposal, and improving “waste disposal

facilities and practices.”

The new act changes the following:

• Enables any new regulations required to

implement amendments.

• Enables Extended Producer Responsibility

(EPR) programs, which could shift

responsibility for managing the disposal phase

of consumer products and packaging from

communities and taxpayers to producers.

• Clarifies Environment Fund contributions,

disbursements, and administration.

• Expands the Minister’s authority to appoint

officers, to delegate responsibilities, to enter

into agreements, and to create landfill disposal

bans.

• Extends how long prosecution can happen

after an alleged offense.

• Updates and modernizes enforcement and

inspection provisions.

• Enables more responsive surcharges and

fees through Ministerial Regulations.

• Redefines and clarifies terminology.

Committee Considered Public Input

Committee sought public feedback on Bill 78

with a public notice and targeted engagement

letters. On June 1, 2023, Committee held a

public hearing in Yellowknife to review Bill 78.

At that meeting, Committee heard remarks from

the Minister of Environment and Climate

Change and his staff.

One area of concern identified was the need to

provide clarity and certainty with respect to the

Minister’s authority to enter into waste

management agreements, and where

information about these agreements would be

publicly available. The Minister and his staff

committed to look at these practices and to

make information available on a website

maintained by the department.

Committee initially expressed concerns about

how EPR programs and other waste reduction

initiatives might impact small communities in

the NWT and questioned whether subsidies

would cover the cost for implementation. The

department says it consulted Indigenous

Governments during the engagement process.

Committee previously sent stakeholder letters

to small communities and Indigenous

Governments. Committee was pleased to hear

that small communities are represented on the

Waste Reduction and Recovery Advisory

Committee and that new initiatives would be a

net benefit to small communities. The

department is already actively working to

reduce the build-up of materials in landfills that

may later be prohibited by new regulations. The

Minister commented that the new Act will have

no impact on Indigenous Land Rights or self

government agreement. Staff also noted that

Indigenous Governments and small

communities would be consulted during the

development of regulations under the new Act.

Committee also raised concerns about bottle

recycling, particularly establishing a new,

satellite recycling facility in downtown

Yellowknife. Committee asked questions about

staffing the new depot, having cash on site for

patrons, its location, and the feasibility of

adding more recycling and waste disposal

initiatives (i.e., removing tires from the waste

cycle through EPR programs). Committee

welcomed more of these initiatives.

Recommendation 1: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that the GNWT and the

Department of Environment and Climate

Change continue their efforts toward opening a

second recycling facility in Yellowknife to

improve access for residents and increase

waste recovery. The Department should

continue to explore new technology and

methods towards waste reduction, diversion

and recycling while creating local employment.

Committee, therefore, further recommends that

this second recycling facility be a staffed site

with cash available to pay patrons.

Typically, Committee includes a

recommendation in each report requesting a

response from government within 120 days.

The recommendation is then moved as a

motion in the House and Cabinet is required to

respond. However, since the 19th Legislative

Assembly will dissolve in less than 120 days,

Committee requests that the government

provide a public response to this report at the

earliest opportunity. Committee also asked

questions about whether the GNWT was

investigating the disposal of industrial waste at

accepted waste sites and how new initiatives

might benefit the Remediation Economy.

Committee discussed seeking public input and

the need for engagement before the creation of

regulations under the new Act. For instance,

Committee expressed an interest in more

reporting and the need for transparency

regarding the Environment Fund, as well as

practical concerns about how EPR programs

might affect residents trying to recycle tires for

example, and whether they would have to bring

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6481

that tire to a store rather than their local Solid

Waste Facility.

After careful consideration, Committee

supported five motions amending Bill 78.

Committee negotiated the exact wording with

the GNWT.

Committee Amended Five Clauses

Motions 1, 2, and 4

Both Committee and the GNWT supported the

idea of making the Minister’s delegated

responsibilities and agreements public and that

it was practical to publish agreements on the

department’s website. Committee and the

GNWT agreed to add language after clauses

4(2), 4(5), and 16(3) regarding public notice.

These changes would make public notice

requirements mandatory for disposal bans and

consistent with the provisions for public notice

on prohibited materials.

Three motions reflecting these changes were

passed and received concurrence from the

Minister at the clause-by-clause review.

Motion 3

Committee recognizes that Waste Reduction

and Recovery Advisory Committee plays an

important role in bringing together various

voices from communities, the private sector

and the public about waste management

initiatives. Committee discussed these bodies

with the Minister at the Public Hearing and was

of the view that the continuation of the current

Committee should be a requirement and not at

the discretion of the Minister. Committee and

the GNWT agreed that changing the word

“may” to “shall” in clause 5 would require the

continuation of the Advisory Committees, their

function, and the appointment of members.

Committee agreed with the Department that the

Minister should have the authority to establish

more than one Advisory Committee. A motion

reflecting these changes was passed at the

clause-by-clause review and received

Ministerial concurrence.

Motion 5

Committee is of the view that the Environment

Fund is an important mechanism for cost

recovery, encouraging better waste

management, and creation of local employment

but that there should be greater accountability

through publication of a summary of its financial

position. Following Committee’s discussion of

the Environment Fund and finances at the

Public Hearing, Committee and the GNWT

agreed to adding language after clause 17

about audited financial statements and

publishing these on the department’s website.

A motion reflecting this change was passed at

the clause-by-clause review and received

Ministerial concurrence.

Conclusion

On July 5, 2023, Committee held a clause-by-

clause review. Committee passed the motions

to report Bill 78, as amended, to the Legislative

Assembly as ready for consideration in

Committee of the Whole (the Motions are found

in Appendix A).

In the House on September XX, Bill 78: Waste

Reduction and Resource Recovery Act, will be

orally reported as ready for further

consideration in Committee of the Whole. This

concludes Standing Committee’s review of Bill

78: Waste Reduction and Resource Recovery

Act.

MR. SPEAKER: Reports of standing and

special committees. Member for Deh Cho.

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mr. Speaker, I move,

seconded by the Member for Frame Lake, that

Committee report 63-19(2), Standing

Committee on Economic Development and

Environment Report on the Review of Bill 78:

Waste Reduction and Resource Recovery Act,

be received and adopted by the Assembly.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Deh

Cho. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried. Committee

report has been received and adopted.

---Carried

Reports of standing and special committees.

Member for Deh Cho.

COMMITTEE REPORT 64-19(2):

REPORT ON BILL 84: AN ACT TO AMEND

THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES

BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT AND

INVESTMENT CORPORATION ACT

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mr. Speaker, your

Standing Committee on Economic

Development and Environment is pleased to

provide its Report on Review of Bill 84: An Act

to Amend the Northwest Territories Business

Development and Investment Corporation Act.

And, Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the

Member for Frame Lake, that Committee report

64-19(2), Standing Committee on Economic

Development and Environment Report on the

Page 6482 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

Review of Bill 84: An Act to Amend the

Northwest Territories Business Development

and Investment Corporation Act, be deemed

read and printed in Hansard in its entirety.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Deh

Cho. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried. Committee

report is deemed read.

---Carried

MR. BONNETROUGE:

Introduction

Bill 84: An Act to Amend the Northwest

Territories Business Development and

Investment Corporation Act (Bill 84) received

second reading on March 30, 2023, and was

referred to the Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

(Committee) for review. Bill 84 amends the

Northwest Territories Business Development

and Investment Corporation Act which has only

had minor amendments since originally coming

into force.

Bill 84 will amend the Northwest Territories

Business Development and Investment

Corporation (BDIC), which was established on

April 1, 2005, and is a Crown Corporation of the

Government of the Northwest Territories

(GNWT). The BDIC’s role is promoting and

maintaining economic development and

employment in the NWT. This role has both

economic and social aspects. BDIC provides a

range of loans, financial programs, and other

services aimed at helping northern business

succeed by promoting financial independence,

economic development, and diversity in the

northern economy. BDIC also undertakes

economic development initiatives itself in the

interest of job creation in small communities

and diversification of the NWT economy.

Committee supports these initiatives, especially

as they coincide with the recommendations in

our report on Supporting Northern Businesses.

BDIC itself underwent through previous

external reviews in 2013, 2014 and 2019.

Committee noted that those reviews did not

result in legislative change until this Bill was

brought forward.

Bill 84 proposed the following:

• change the name of the Act to the Prosper

Northwest Territories Act and will continue the

BDIC as Prosper NWT (which was not part of

the public engagement on the Bill or a

recommendation from the two previous

external reviews);

• clarify when a corporation will be considered

a subsidiary of Prosper NWT for the purposes

of the Act and will give the Minister the authority

to modify Prosper NWT’s non-financial support

programs to better respond to emerging

business needs;

• give Prosper NWT the power to provide NWT

businesses with non-financial supports and

assistance that are not part of established

programs and continue to give Prosper NWT

the authority to provide financial support to

business enterprises and subsidiaries;

• remove the requirement in the Act for periodic

reviews and streamline the requirements for

audits/reviews set out in the Financial

Administration Act

• clarify conflict of interest provisions under the

Act as well as clarify when businesses are

considered related; and

• make consequential amendments to the

Financial Administration Act, the Ombud Act,

and the Public Service Act

Committee Considered Public Input

Committee sought public feedback on Bill 84

with a public notice and targeted engagement

letters. On May 10, 2023, Committee held a

public hearing in Yellowknife to review Bill 84.

At that meeting, Committee heard remarks from

the Minister of Industry Tourism and Investment

(ITI), and from Joyce Taylor, Chief Executive

Officer of BDIC. Committee also listened to

statements made by members of the public in

support of both the BDIC and the proposed

legislative changes.

Committee voiced concerns about the BDIC

board’s composition. These concerns included:

vacant board positions, issues of quorum, the

lack of a chairperson, extensions to board

appointments, and no representation from

small communities.

Committee, through correspondence with the

Minister of ITI, received a copy of a competency

matrix for selecting board members and then

developed an amendment to Bill 84 that would

help ensure the board’s composition would

reflect the regions and industries in the

Northwest Territories.

However, after receiving a written submission

expressing concerns about BDIC’s proposed

name change and a lack of accountability,

Committee had further concerns about the

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6483

board and the recent brand audit which had

prompted BDIC to change their name.

Committee attempted several times to acquire

the brand audit report from the Minister and

BDIC itself without success. The report was

finally provided to Committee following the

preparation of a draft notice to compel the

production of the information. When the

document was provided, Committee could find

very little information that actually supported

the name change and requested additional

information which was supplied.

Committee Cannot Endorse the Gnwt

Approach at This Time

Committee is of the view that while there is

considerable benefit to passing Bill 84 as

drafted with the amendment concerning the

BDIC board composition. These changes also

reflect the recommendations brought forward in

the two previous external reviews.

However, concerns remain that both the

Committee and the public have not been

provided with enough information about the

name change and brand audit to show that

BDIC’s approach to rebranding at this time is

reasonable. Committee notes that the

rebranding and name change were not part of

the public engagement process that was

undertaken to develop Bill 84. Committee

believes better collaboration and engagement

to access and provide input into the BDIC’s

rebranding efforts would have allowed for a

stronger Bill.

Recommendation 1: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that the Business Development

and Investment Corporation publicly release

the rebranding audit and related information on

a name change as part of a broader public

engagement on rebranding and a possible

name change.

With the lack of public information about the

BDIC’s rebranding efforts, Committee explored

the possibility of drafting motions to move that

all name-change clauses be removed from Bill

84. However, after consideration this was

thought too onerous. Ultimately, the delays

during the review process and the lack of

transparency informed Committee’s decision to

report Bill 84 to the Legislative Assembly as not

ready for consideration in Committee of the

Whole.

Committee is mindful that there is little time left

in the 19th Assembly to allow for public

engagement on changing the name of the

BDIC. Committee also recognizes that the

development of planned strategic direction

such as rebranding the corporation is likely the

most important duty the BDIC board can

undertake. Regarding the current need for

further board appointments, Committee

encourages the Minister to make new board

appointees to fill gaps after the upcoming

election.

Recommendation 2: Standing Committee on

Economic Development and Environment

recommends that the Minister of Industry,

Tourism and Investment work the Business

Development and Investment Corporation to

introduce a Bill early in the life of the next

Assembly to respond to the recommendations

from the previous external reviews and public

engagement on rebranding and a name

change.

Conclusion

On July 25, 2023, Committee held a clause-by-

clause review.vi Based on Committee’s

concerns about changing the name of the

BDIC, the need for public accountability, and

transparency stated above, Committee passed

a motion to report Bill 84 to the Legislative

Assembly as not ready for consideration in

Committee of the Whole.

Typically, Committee includes a

recommendation in each report requesting a

response from government within 120 days.

The recommendation is then moved as a

motion in the House and Cabinet is required to

respond. However, since the 19th Legislative

Assembly will dissolve in less than 120 days,

Committee requests that the government

provide a public response to this report at the

earliest opportunity.

This concludes Standing Committee’s review of

Bill 84: An Act to Amend the Northwest

Territories Business Development and

Investment Corporation Act.

MR. SPEAKER: Reports of standing and

special committees. Member for Deh Cho.

MR. BONNETROUGE: Mr. Speaker, I move,

seconded by the Member for Frame Lake, that

Committee report 64-19(2), Standing

Committee on Economic Development and

Environment Report on Review of Bill 84: An

Act to Amend the Northwest Territories

Business Development and Investment

Corporation Act, be received and adopted by

the Assembly. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Deh

Cho. The motion is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

Page 6484 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed? Any

abstentions? The motion is carried. Bill 84 is

received and adopted.

---Carried

Reports of standing and special committees.

Tabling of documents. Minister responsible for

Finance.

Tabling of Documents

TABLED DOCUMENT 973-19(2):

2024-2025 CAPITAL ESTIMATES

TABLED DOCUMENT 974-19(2):

SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES

OPERATIONS EXPENDITURES, NO. 3,

2023-2024

TABLED DOCUMENT 975-19(2):

FOLLOW-UP LETTER FOR ORAL

QUESTION 1333-19(2):

INTEROPERABILITY OF GOVERNMENT OF

THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES

SYSTEMS

TABLED DOCUMENT 976-19(2):

FOLLOW-UP LETTER FOR ORAL

QUESTION 1340-19(2): INDIGENOUS

EMPLOYMENT POLICY

TABLED DOCUMENT 977-19(2):

FOLLOW-UP LETTER FOR ORAL

QUESTION 1451-19(2): NORTHERN

RESIDENT TRAVEL DEDUCTION

TABLED DOCUMENT 978-19(2):

FOLLOW-UP LETTER FOR ORAL

QUESTION 1474-19(2): AUDIT REPORT

AND UNSPENT FUNDS ON INTERNET

CONNECTIVITY

TABLED DOCUMENT 979-19(2):

FOLLOW-UP LETTER FOR ORAL

QUESTION 1488-19(2): GOVERNMENT OF

THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES

INDIGENOUS LANGUAGE SYSTEM

TABLED DOCUMENT 980-19(2):

FOLLOW-UP LETTER FOR ORAL

QUESTION 1557-19(2): LAND LEASES

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Mr. Speaker,

I wish to table the following eight documents:

2024-2025 Capital estimates; Supplementary

estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 3,

2023-2024; Follow-up Letter for Oral Question

1333-19(2): Interoperability of Government of

the Northwest Territories Systems; Follow-up

Letter for Oral Question 1340-19(2): Indigenous

employment policy; Follow-up Letter for Oral

Question 1451-19(2): Northern Resident Travel

Deduction; Follow-up Letter for Oral Question

1474-19(2): Audit Report and Unspent Funds

on Internet Connectivity; Follow-up Letter for

Oral Question 1488-19(2): GNWT Indigenous

Language System; and, Follow-up Letter for

Oral Question 1557-19(2): Land Leases. Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Tabling

of documents. Madam Premier.

TABLED DOCUMENT 981-19(2):

FINAL REPORT ON THE MANDATE OF THE

GOVERNMENT OF THE NORTHWEST

TERRITORIES 2019-2020

TABLED DOCUMENT 982-19(2):

LETTER TO PRIME MINISTER REGARDING

MLA CONCERNS RESPECTING COSMOS

954 EFFECTS ON HEALTH AND SAFETY

TABLED DOCUMENT 983-19(2):

FOLLOW-UP LETTER FOR ORAL

QUESTION 1321-19(2): HOUSING CRISIS

IN THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES

TABLED DOCUMENT 984-19(2):

FOLLOW-UP LETTER FOR ORAL

QUESTION 1464-19(2): FEDERAL DAY

SCHOOL

TABLED DOCUMENT 985-19(2):

FOLLOW-UP LETTER FOR ORAL

QUESTION 1541-19(2): GOVERNMENT OF

THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES

COMMITTED TO UNITED NATIONS

DECLARATION ON THE RIGHTS OF

INDIGENOUS PEOPLES IMPLEMENTATION

HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following five

documents: Final Report of the Mandate of this

Government of the Northwest Territories

2019-2023; Letter to Prime minister regarding

MLA Concerns Respecting COSMOS 954

Effects on Health and Safety; Follow-up Letter

for Oral Question 1321-19(2): Housing Crisis in

the NWT;

Follow-up Letter for Oral Question 1464-19(2):

Federal Day School; and, Follow-up Letter for

Oral Question 1541-19(2): Government of the

Northwest Territories Committed to United

Nations Declaration on the Rights of

Indigenous Peoples Implementation. Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Madam Premier.

Tabling of documents. Minister responsible for

Justice.

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6485

TABLED DOCUMENT 986-19(2):

FOLLOW-UP LETTER FOR ORAL

QUESTION 1510-19(2): SEARCHING FOR

FRANK GRUBEN

TABLED DOCUMENT 987-19(2):

FOLLOW-UP LETTER FOR ORAL

QUESTION 1515-19(2): TRANSPARENCY

OF CORPORATE REGISTRIES

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Mr. Speaker, I wish to

table the following two documents: Follow-up

Letter for Oral Question 1510-19(2): Searching

for Frank Gruben; and, Follow-up Letter for Oral

Question 1515-19(2): Transparency of

Corporate Registries. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Tabling

of documents. Minister responsible for

Infrastructure.

TABLED DOCUMENT 988-19(2):

FOLLOW-UP LETTER FOR ORAL

QUESTION 1519-19(2): RESURFACING

FORT SMITH AIRPORT RUNWAY

HON. DIANE ARCHIE: I wish to table the

following document: Follow-up Letter for Oral

Question 1519-19(2): Resurfacing Fort Smith

Airport Runway. Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Tabling

of documents. Member for Frame Lake.

TABLED DOCUMENT 989-19(2):

LETTER DATED JULY 14, 2023, TO

INTERGOVERNMENTAL COUNCIL

SECRETARIAT REGARDING BILL 29:

RESOURCE ROYALTY INFORMATION

DISCLOSURE STATUTE AMENDMENT ACT

TABLED DOCUMENT 990-19(2):

LETTER DATED JULY 14, 2023 TO NON-

INTERGOVERNMENTAL COUNCIL

INDIGENOUS GOVERNMENTS

REGARDING BILL 29: RESOURCE

ROYALTY INFORMATION DISCLOSURE

STATUTE AMENDMENT ACT

TABLED DOCUMENT 991-19(2):

INFORMATION AND PRIVACY

COMMISSIONER REVIEW REPORT AND

ORDER, MAY 26, 2023

TABLED DOCUMENT 992-19(2):

ITI DECISION LETTER JUNE 26, 2023

TABLED DOCUMENT 993-19(2):

OBSERVATIONS ON ITI ATIPP MEETING

SUMMARIES (REVISED AUGUST 2023)

TABLED DOCUMENT 994-19(2):

REVISED GNWT-CHAMBER OF MINES

MEETING SUMMARIES WITH ADDITIONAL

INFORMATION JUNE 26, 2023

MR. O'REILLY: Merci, Monsieur le President. I

have five following documents to table: Letter

from MLA Frame Lake to Intergovernmental

council Secretariat regarding Bill 29 dated July

14th, 2023; second one, Mr. Speaker, Letter

from MLA Frame Lake to

Non-Intergovernmental Council Indigenous

Governments regarding Bill 29 dated July 14th,

2023; Information and Privacy Commissioner

Review Report and Order dated May 26th,

2023; ITI Decision Letter dated June 26th,

2023, Observations on ITI ATIPP Meeting

Summaries (revised August 2023); and lastly,

Mr. Speaker, revised GNWT Chamber of Mines

Meeting Summaries with Additional

Information. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

TABLED DOCUMENT 995-19(2):

INTEGRITY COMMISSIONER REPORT INTO

A COMPLAINT MADE BY THE HON. SHANE

THOMPSON, MLA ALLEGING THAT

MS. KATRINA NOKLEBY, MLA HAS

BREACHED THE MEMBERS’ CODE OF

CONDUCT

TABLED DOCUMENT 996-19(2):

ELECTIONS NWT 2022-23 ANNUAL

REPORT

TABLED DOCUMENT 997-19(2):

NORTHWEST TERRITORIES OMBUD

ANNUAL REPORT

TABLED DOCUMENT 998-19(2):

SPEAKING UP FOR FAIRNESS – 2022/2023

ANNUAL REPORT OF THE NORTHWEST

TERRITORIES OMBUD

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Frame

Lake. Tabling of documents. Colleagues, I wish

to table the report of the Integrity Commissioner

of the Investigation into a Complaint made by

the Honourable Shane Thompson, MLA,

alleging that Ms. Katrina Nokleby, MLA, has

breached the Members' Code of Conduct.

Members, in accordance with Section 266.1(1)

of the Elections and Plebiscite Act, I wish to

table the Elections NWT 2022-2023 Annual

Report.

Pursuant to Section 43 of the Ombud Act, I

hereby table Speaking Up for Fairness, the

2022-2023 Annual Report of the Northwest

Territories ombud.

Pursuant to Section 43(3) of the Ombud Act, I

hereby table the Northwest Territories ombud

Page 6486 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

Special Report 1-2023 Providing Investigation

Updates.

Tabling of documents. Notices of motion.

Minister responsible for Finance.

Notices of Motion

MOTION 84-19(2):

TAXATION OF VAPING PRODUCTS UNDER

COORDINATED VAPING TAXATION

PRODUCTS AGREEMENT

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Mr. Speaker,

I give notice that on Friday, September 29th,

2023, I will move the following motion:

Now therefore I move, seconded by the

honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre,

that the Government of the Northwest

Territories should agree to receive revenues

from an excise duty in respect of the Northwest

Territories as imposed as part of the federally

legislated Vaping Products Excise Tax. Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Minister. Notices

of motion. Member for Thebacha.

MOTION 85-19(2):

EXTENDED ADJOURNMENT OF THE

HOUSE TO OCTOBER 3, 2023

MS. MARTSELOS: Mr. Speaker, I give notice

that on Friday, September the 29th, I will move

the following motion:

I move, second by the honourable Member for

Hay River North, that when this House adjourns

on Friday, September 29, 2023, it shall be

adjourned until Tuesday, October the 3rd,

2023;

And furthermore, that at any time prior to

October 3rd, 2023, if the Speaker is satisfied,

after consultation with the Executive Council

and Members of the Legislative Assembly, that

the public interest requires that the House

should meet at an earlier time during the

adjournment, or at a time later than the

scheduled resumption of the House, the

Speaker may give notice and thereupon the

House shall meet at the time stated in such

notice and shall transact its business as if it has

been duly adjourned to that time. Thank you,

Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for

Thebacha. Notices of motion. Motions. Notices

of motion for the first reading of bills. First

reading of bills. Second reading of bills.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of

bills and other matters. Bill 23, 29, 77, and 82,

Committee report 52-19(2), Minister's

Statement 264-19(2), Tabled Document

681-19(2), Tabled Document 973 and

974-19(2), with Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes

in the chair.

Consideration in Committee of the

Whole of Bills and Other Matters

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): I now call

Committee of the Whole to order. What is the

wish of committee? Member for Frame Lake

MR. O'REILLY: Merci, Madam la Presidente.

Committee wishes to Consider Bills 29, 77, and

82, and Tabled Document 973-19(2), Capital

estimates 2024-2025. Mahsi.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you.

Does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

committee. We'll take a short recess and

resume with the first item.

---SHORT RECESS

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): I'll now call

Committee of the Whole back to order.

Committee has agreed to consider Bill 29,

Resource Royalty Information Disclosure

Statute Amendment Act. I'll ask the sponsoring

Member to introduce the bill. Member for Frame

Lake.

MR. O'REILLY: Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thanks for the opportunity to offer opening

remarks on Bill 29.

I just, first, want to thank the law clerk who

assisted with the research, drafting instructions,

and legal advice in preparing the bill. I want to

also acknowledge the work of the Department

of Justice staff who assisted with the drafting of

the bill. And I also want to acknowledge the

separation of my role on the committee and as

sponsor of the bill. I always declared a conflict

of interest if the bill was discussed at

committee.

Madam Chair, I'm going to take a few minutes

to actually go through a number of things. And

I realize it's a three clause bill but it's been a

while since we've talked about this. So I'd like

to talk about why this bill is necessary, what it

does, and what it does not do, engagement that

was undertaken, and to briefly respond to some

concerns that I've heard. At the end, of course,

I'll be pleased to try to answer any questions

raised by committee. Let's start with why this bill

is necessary.

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6487

The current mineral and petroleum

management legislation and regulations have

been interpreted and applied in a manner that

does not allow for the sharing of any royalty

information with MLAs or Indigenous

governments. The only information available to

us and the public is in the public accounts and

main estimates where combined resource

royalties for mining and petroleum development

are found on an annual basis. The Minister of

Industry, Tourism and Investment initiated a

review of the Mining Fiscal Regime in October

of 2020. It's hard to see how a meaningful and

comprehensive review can take place if more

royalty information cannot be shared on a

confidential basis with MLAs. Sharing

information with Regular MLAs is at the

foundation of how our consensus style

government works.

So what kind of royalty information might be

helpful to know in reviewing the fiscal regime for

mining?

The only information on mining royalties held by

GNWT is that submitted on an annual royalty

return form. It's three pages. I've looked it over.

There's information there about mineral

production for individual mines and the value of

that production, various deductions in the form

of allowances and depreciation are recorded

and calculated on those forms as well.

In evaluating the performance of the current

system and options that could improve or

maximize retention of benefits, it would be

helpful and perhaps even essential to be able

to understand how deductions and allowances

are used and what alternatives there may be.

All of this can and should be done in a

confidential manner to protect business

interests just as Regular MLAs get confidential

information on issues such as taxation,

program changes, or infrastructure. This is how

we make informed decisions in our consensus

government system.

There are still no publicly available proposals,

plan, or schedule to fix this problem. There are

still no concrete proposals for mining royalties

or even improved public disclosure after four

years of this Assembly. Bill 29 is my attempt to

address this problem in the least intrusive

manner possible by giving the Minister the

ability to share royalty information on a

confidential basis.

I also thought and believe that if MLAs could get

such information on a confidential basis, so

should Indigenous governments. They fought

very hard to get to the table in terms of

co-drafting of legislation and regulations in the

last Assembly and that has now been

formalized in the recent legislative development

protocol and process convention.

What Bill 29 actually does. There are three

small, targeted changes to the laws that govern

mineral and petroleum rights administration.

The language of the bill is modeled after what

is already in the mining regulations as of June

1st, 2018, and the Mineral Resources Act

passed in 2019. There are already provisions in

our legislation for royalty information to be

shared within Government of the Northwest

Territories for, quote, "use in the development

and evaluation of policy for the GNWT." End of

quote.

This means that royalty information is already

available to be shared with Cabinet and other

departments. This was modeled after what

Ontario does. This bill would extend that

possible sharing of royalty information to

include MLAs and Indigenous governments

who could receive it at the discretion of the ITI

Minister and with conditions to protect its

confidentiality. Bill 29 does not provide for any

public disclosure of royalty information. It does

not require any additional reporting from the

resource sector or industry. It does not allow

MLAs or Indigenous governments to access

any royalty or other confidential information

from the private sector that has not already

been disclosed to GNWT.

The bill simply gives discretion to the ITI

Minister to share royalty information with

Regular MLAs and Indigenous governments for

the sole purpose of development and

evaluation of policy for the GNWT and on a

confidential basis. This is not unusual as such

information sharing is at the core of consensus

government and our new way of working with

Indigenous governments.

I started work on this bill in February 2021.

Research and drafting took until May when a

copy of the bill and a briefing note were

provided to Cabinet and Regular MLAs almost

four weeks in advance of the May/June sitting.

I invited comments and concerns and

suggestions for changes. Nothing in writing was

received. I acknowledge there was no

engagement with Indigenous governments or

industry about the bill before its introduction.

This is a reflection of the limited resources

available to Regular MLAs and the available

opportunities to introduce new legislation. At

the same time, I was also concerned with the

review of the Mining Fiscal Regime continuing

without the ability to share royalty information.

After the bill was referred to committee, I sent

copies of the bill and a briefing note to the

members of the Intergovernmental Council and

non-IGC Indigenous governments with an offer

Page 6488 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

to engage if there were any questions or

concerns. No responses were received.

I had informal meetings and exchanges with

some Indigenous government staff and

advisors over the summer of 2021. I also

offered to meet with the Chamber of Mines. I

also met with the ITI Minister to better

understand any concerns or issues there as

well. I followed up with a further letter to

Indigenous governments in July 2023, and I

tabled those letters earlier today, but I did not

get much feedback.

Standing committee could not reach agreement

on how to proceed with the bill. However,

standing committee did recommend that the bill

should receive further consideration in

Committee of the Whole when it reported back

on November 23, 2021. What I heard and have

seen from those discussions and the

submissions on the bill are some of the

following:

Concerns that the Private Member's Bill goes

outside the Legislative Development Protocol

with Indigenous governments. I acknowledge

this new way of working together. The minor

nature of the changes in the bill and the fact that

they don't establish or take away any rights but

simply allow information sharing appears to

have generally addressed these concerns.

There has been some support for the bill as it

can enable an informed discussion of royalties

and benefit retention. Some have suggested

changes to the bill to make the provision of

royalty information sharing mandatory. I

continue to support discretionary authority for

the Minister as the least intrusive method of

enabling royalty information sharing while

protecting confidentiality.

There is some misunderstanding of the scope,

purpose, and nature of these changes

proposed in Bill 29. This includes statements on

duplication with federal reporting of extractive

sector payments, sharing of information beyond

royalties with the public or competitors, adding

additional reporting by industry, and the timing

of the bill with regard to the overall review of the

Mining Fiscal Regime.

I have waited four years for the development of

mining regulations to get to the point of detailed

analysis of royalties, options, and public

debate, but we are still not there yet, and time

is running out on this Assembly. This bill is an

interim step to ensure that there can be a

thorough and informed review of mining and

other resource royalties. I have concluded that

it is still in the public interest to proceed with the

bill to allow this work to take place in the next

Assembly. This bill simply allows the ITI

minister to share resource royalty information

on a confidential basis with MLAs and

Indigenous governments. Nothing more, and

nothing less. No public disclosure, no new

reporting or sharing of other information.

However, royalty information sharing with

protection of confidentiality is consistent with

how consensus government already functions

and how we work with Indigenous

governments. It will also support an informed

review of the Mining Fiscal Regime that is

already underway and needs to be concluded

in the 20th Assembly.

Thanks for the chance to offer opening

remarks, and I would be happy to answer any

questions or concerns of committee. Mahsi,

Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

Member. Do you have any witnesses to bring

into the Chamber?

MR. O'REILLY: Yes, I do, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler):

Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witness to

the Chamber. Thank you. You're good? Okay.

Member for Frame Lake, please introduce your

witness.

MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Madam Chair. I have

law clerk Toby Kruger sitting next to me who

helped me develop and draft the bill. Thank you

very much.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Welcome. I

will now turn to the chair of Standing Committee

on Economic Development and Environment,

the committee that reviewed the bill, for any

opening comments on Bill 29.

MR. JACOBSON: Thank you, Madam Chair.

Bill 29, Resource Royalty Information

Disclosure Statute Amendment Act received

second reading in the Legislative Assembly on

June 1st, 2021, and was referred to the

Standing Committee on Economic

Development and Environment for review. The

standing committee held a public hearing with

the sponsoring Member on September 15th,

2021. Presentations were provided from the

NWT and Nunavut Chamber of Mines, the

Mining Association of Canada, and the

Department of Industry, Tourism and

Investment.

Through the public engagement period,

committee also received submissions from the

Tlicho Government, Sahtu Secretariat

Incorporated, the NWT and Nunavut Chamber

of Mines, the Mining Association of Canada,

Arctic Canadian Diamond Company, the

Explorers and Producers Association of

Canada, and Alternatives North. Submissions

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6489

on the bill were polarized. Industry was not

supportive. Other stakeholders expressed

support with the intent of the bill. Members held

varying positions. Committee was concerned

whether the bill would duplicate information

available under the Extractive Sectors

Transparency Measures Act but recognized

there was differences in the royalty payments

reported through ESTMA and the GNWT'S

public accounts. There was concern that Bill 29

implicated the mining sector to disclose

information not required of other sectors such

as quarrying or forestry. The committee

recognized that even if Bill 29 was enacted, the

Minister would still hold discretion on whether

to disclose confidential information. The

committee was concerned with the unknown

risks regarding potential breaches of

confidential information made available through

Bill 29. A clause-by-clause review was held on

September 15th, 2021, and the committee

could not reach agreement on how to proceed

with the bill it was recommended to proceed for

consideration in Committee of the Whole.

Individual Members may have other additional

questions and comments. Thank you, Madam

Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

Member for Nunakput. I will now open the floor

to general comments on Bill 29. Member for

Great Slave.

MS. NOKLEBY: Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, I would be remiss if I didn't bring

forward more details on exactly what the

Chamber of Mines, as well as the Mining

Association of Canada, what their concerns

were with this bill. Some of this may be a bit

duplicative of what's already been said but I

think it bears repeating.

So it does propose to make changes to three

pieces of legislation which could have far

reaching negative effects on our mineral

investment competitiveness. Industry members

found that the bill was duplicative of other

legislation. It proposes unusual sharing of

confidential tax information beyond government

staff who have the responsibility and assistance

to protect business sensitive financial

information. Disconcertingly, this confidential

and sensitive information would also be

available to business competitors, and it is

being proposed before the GNWT has

completed its study on resource royalties and

the tax system. And as well, Madam Chair, this

does not support the 19th Legislative

Assembly's mandate to, quote, "increase

resource exploration and development," and,

quote, "restore levels of investment,

partnership, employment, and growth in the

NWT's economy."

As my colleague mentioned, it is duplicative of

the ESTMA legislation, and that is the

Extractive Sector Transparency Management

Act, where individual mines report what they

pay to governments in various taxes, including

royalties, which are then posted publicly. This

legislation was advanced and supported by the

Canadian mining industry, working together

with two NGOs, to become law.

In Canada, it is fully consistent with other

international financial payment purporting

schemes in the United Kingdom and in Europe.

These jurisdictions mutually recognize each

other's legislation as equivalent. This

equivalency recognition allows for a company

to report government payments only once and

have that report address reporting

requirements in multiple jurisdictions,

minimizing reporting burden and duplication.

ESTMA is fundamentally an anticorruption tool

to determine whether payments made by

industry to government match with government

reporting of payments received. While not an

issue in Canada, these anticorruption

mechanisms have high relevance in other parts

of the world where governance is weak and

corruption is high. Quebec is the only other

Canadian jurisdiction with similar legislation,

and it too recognizes legislation in other

jurisdictions as equivalent.

The extra details that are proposed in this

Private Member's bill are therefore

unnecessary, inconsistent with international

norms, and they propose many sensitive

competitiveness issues for industry and

government that are not in the Northwest

Territories' best interest. It is the belief of the

Chamber of Mines the disclosures made under

ESTMA are sufficient to provide the public with

an appreciation for the royalties paid without

exposing commercially sensitive aspects of

each individual business to competitors or the

general public. This is also unusual and

inappropriate sharing of sensitive tax

information. Mineral resource royalties are

essentially a profits tax. They are calculated

through a legislative formula that considers

various factors that could affect profits

positively or negatively and differentially for one

mine compared to another. These include

sensitive, confidential information such as

market price, but in the case of diamonds, also

the efficiency of an individual company's

customer supply chains to maximize their own

market price. It also considers business losses,

capital investments, fuel costs, depreciation

and amortization, and the various other taxes

that companies must also pay.

In the NWT, ice road costs, for example, the

cost of self-generating power, and property

Page 6490 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

taxes, and other costs associated with our

acute infrastructure deficit, are also some of the

unique additional costs incurred by mine

operators that are taken into consideration.

Current NWT legislation recognizes and

respects the need to protect such potentially

sensitive business information. For example,

under the current Northwest Territories mining

regulations and under the upcoming Mineral

Resources Act, through the Access to

Information and Protection of Privacy Act.

Under current privacy laws, this detailed

financial information is limited to the

government staff responsible to use it for

detailed tax calculations and who are obligated

to safeguard it. The current legislation is

designed to protect the public interest by

requiring companies to follow the law in

reporting to government the detailed

information required for royalty calculation

purposes. If enacted, this bill would unusually

allow the release of tax information and sharing

of other sensitive information beyond

government staff who have the authority and

responsibility to audit and assess company

confidential information with politicians and

Indigenous governments without this

responsibility. We say "unusually" as this is not

the norm in other jurisdictions in Canada.

This broadening of the distribution of the

information to a much larger group of people

also substantially increases the likelihood of a

breach of confidentiality requirements. As the

number of people who have the information

increases, the level of confidentiality applied to

the information decreases. The type of

disclosure proposed under Bill 29 could pose

harm to the commercial side of the mineral

resource business for companies that mine or

may be considering it in the NWT.

Government regularly protects all businesses

and industries with confidentiality of their

financial information for tax reporting

calculations. Bill 29 is unusually intrusive in

proposing that detailed, sensitive information

be shared more broadly. It begs the question,

would government then ask other mining and

related businesses to reveal confidential

information related to their profitability?

Similarly, our personal tax filings are not

available to politicians. We see no added value,

and the Chamber does not, and the fact that the

added risk in sharing business details beyond

those whose jobs and skills and responsibilities

are to use this data to calculate royalties and

other taxes.

It is also noted in the statement from the

Chamber that there's unclear intentions but that

the bill is jumping the gun on the GNWT's

royalties study. The intentions behind Bill 29 are

unclear. If it's to allow politicians to propose

different royalty systems, we'd suggest this is

not appropriate. Since we understand the

GNWT ITI is currently conducting an in-depth

royalty review to look into this issue, that

process should be completed to help the

standing committees, all MLAs, and the public

understand the current system before

discussing options to others. And I do recognize

that things have advanced since the time that

this was shared with us. Again, the Chamber

likes to point out that they're not aware of any

other Canadian jurisdiction that is requiring

such an unusual level of sharing of detailed and

frankly sensitive business information as this

bill would require. And like I said before, the

closest might be Quebec but that only requires

a partial reporting of information from the rock

quality to the process plant. So in other words,

they do not require any information on

processes and sales beyond that.

I won't go into any further. I think everybody can

understand why this does not support the

GNWT mandate -- or sorry, this Assembly's

mandate to promote and secure our mining

sector. I don't think that it's any surprise that I

would come out and -- to not support this bill. I

definitely was a member of the committee that

was not in agreement with it. For me, all this is

doing is giving the Minister just yet another

option to say maybe I'll share it with you. It isn't

obligating her to do so, so therefore it just

seems to be very redundant and not necessary

to me. Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

Member. Member for Yellowknife North.

MR. JOHNSON: Yeah, thank you, Madam

Chair. I have a little trouble with this bill because

I think it's -- well, through committee

discussions, the department's opposed to it,

and it is a discretionary power to the Minister.

So even if it was in place, absolutely nothing

would have changed to my knowledge. The

Minister's not willing to share that information,

and just because she may share it as for the

bill, it seems pretty clear that they would not

actually share it. So I don't know what it

accomplishes.

That being said, I guess I just want to -- we've

spent a lot of time trying to understand royalties.

There's essentially one number for royalties in

the territories so roughly $20 million in the

public accounts. Obviously, that fluctuates on

how profitable mines are. And you have to

really make a lot of assumptions about that

number. First off, you have to know that that is

the total amount. Then we give the feds half,

and then we give half of our half to Indigenous

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6491

governments. You have to know that it includes

Norman Wells. We don't really know how much

money we get from Norman Wells, but it is -- the

federal government owns a third of it, so you

can go through their reports and generally try to

guess how much money we get from Norman

Wells oil. There's no other oil obviously paying

us royalties. And then you can assume, really,

it's three diamond mines doing the rest. On

occasion, there has been another mine in the

territory that has paid royalties but historically,

we know, you know, you can assume

something, like, Snap Lake never paid us any

royalties. We don't know how much royalties we

got from mines like Con or Giant or Pine Point.

We don't have that information. That was

federal -- before devolution. But there is a single

line in a federal report that tells you that Giant

Mine paid less in royalties than it paid in -- its

workers paid in income tax. I think about that

single line a lot, and I think it would be very

helpful that perhaps when one of our diamond

mines close, we publish some of these

historical royalty numbers that shows how

many carats they mined, how profitable they

were, how much they paid. I've asked the

Minister at times, you know, why did royalties

all of a sudden get cut in half. And they can't

answer that question publicly. They can't say

well, one of the diamond mines had a bad year.

That's business information.

How confidential is any of this is a bit debatable.

If it's a publicly traded company, you can buy a

stock and you can go see all this information.

It's quite available. Companies in exploration

actually really like to share this information on

how their mines are doing because they want

to raise capital. And then, as has been

mentioned, there is ESTMA. So the mines

voluntarily report quite a bit of this. The

numbers are not quite the same as ESTMA. So

I don't know whether if this passed the Minister

would have gave us anything at all in committee

in doing our report. Probably not. I'd like to think

that if this existed and perhaps a mine had

closed, long since closed, the companies

stopped to exist, we would then publish some

of that historical royalty information because I

find it extremely interesting. I know that during

our current royalty review, we are adding a lot

of -- considering adding a lot more exceptions

to royalties. You know, whether they invest

capital in the Northwest Territories, whether

they have a headquarters in the Northwest

Territories.

I think if you do that, there's kind of an obligation

to say why did this mine pay zero money in

royalties and to be able to somewhat explain

confidentially why the royalties were done. You

could say, you know, Company X moved their

headquarters and invested a lot of capital, that's

why there's zero royalty dollars coming in on

that line item. Right now, none of that

information is available on a confidential basis.

I think there are occasions where it would be

warranted, and the Minister might even

appreciate -- and the company, in fact. I found

a lot of the mines are quite willing to explain

their ESTMA and why, you know, perhaps you

gave an Indigenous government a bunch of

cash one year, and then instead their IBA of

required jobs so they didn't get any money the

next year. They are actually quite willing to

explain how and willing to be transparent. And

so I think, you know -- I don't ever see a Minister

abusing this, and -- well, I hesitate to see a

Minister even using it, but I think there are

definitely cases where we will hold this

historical data for the decades to come, and we

will do research on our royalties where it would

be helpful to be able to share it on a confidential

basis.

You know, at the end of the day, I will support it

because of that. Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you.

Are there any further comments? Can we

proceed to -- oh, sorry. Minister.

HON. CAROLINE WAWZONEK: Thank you,

Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I do have some

remarks I want to make that I have drafted. I do

want to just start by acknowledging the

frustration that it has taken a long time and we

are still in the process of completing the Mineral

Resource Act regulations. And through that

process, without the regulations, of course, this

is where we wind up in this situation we are in.

And there's a very real chance at the end of the

drafting of the regulations when the entire

process is complete, including royalties, there

may well be a process in place by which the

kind of disclosure that's made available is even

more fulsome than what is contemplated by this

bill.

Fundamentally, the remarks I want to make,

really though, are focused on the process that

we are in in terms of developing that -- in terms

of developing those regulations. It's a

collaborative process with the Indigenous

governments. ITI has been going through the

legislative -- this legislative protocol process

with Intergovernmental Council. It is -- we were

the first department out of the gate to have the

opportunity to utilize that process. And it's been

time consuming because it's new. And it was

new for everyone. It was new for us. It was new

for Indigenous governments. And to do it right

certainly has taken some time, and the inability

to meet in person during COVID certainly did

not help in expediting that work as we were

trying to get the process moving and to have

Page 6492 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

these meetings collaborative -- having

collaborative meetings, which really did require

in-person meetings. So it has taken longer than

I would have hoped. And it is frustrating for all

involved, and I appreciate it's been frustrating

for people who have been waiting for it. And I

know the MLA who sponsored this bill was

deeply involved in the Mineral Resources Act

last Assembly and was -- and had a very keen

interest in this work in this Assembly.

I recognize also the comments around, you

know, what the schedule, what the plan, what's

coming next. Again, there's been some

disruption over this summer obviously as to the

ability to attend here and put information out. I

think the Member only quite recently has seen

that we do have a very comprehensive status

update coming out -- it will be tabled in this

House -- that does give a very good sense of

exactly where we are at, all of the work that has

been done, and what is coming next. And,

indeed, one of the things that is, indeed, coming

next is the discussion of royalties, which

includes the opportunity for industry to meet

with us, for us, first of all, to meet with

Indigenous governments through the process

to ensure that as the regs are developed that

they are developed in a way for royalties that

will allow as much transparency as possible. So

that's the duplicative nature here to me is really

do we wait for a process that has been

underway now for some time that is deeply

involving the Intergovernmental Council that

has now worked out how that

Intergovernmental Council work would be done

and allow that to run its course or carve out this

one issue and have a side piece of legislation.

So I am asking people to let us keep doing the

work we're doing.

As to the Petroleum Resources Act, just a note,

the Mineral Resources Act is the priority.

There's not a whole lot happening right now

under the Petroleum Resources Act. But

ultimately, the process for updating that will also

go through the Intergovernmental Council

legislative process. So in due course, that will

also come to.

But, really, the -- I want to emphasize the

concerns that are being raised by -- and that are

being sought to be amended or fixed, the

departments and the Intergovernmental

Council technical working group who are

involved, they're well aware of the desire for

more information, the desire to see some sort

of change and some sort of greater access to

information but, again, it's the idea of letting that

process work its way through. As I said, there's

actually a chance that the disclosure may be

more broad than what's actually contemplated

in the bill that's before the House right now. I

can't say for sure. What I want to say is, you

know -- and even I'll go so far as to say in the

discussions that have been had to date with

industry, they know there's some change

coming. And I don't even know that there's any

reluctance to see the change. The desires for

that change to happen systemically, for it to

happen as part of a total package, for it to

happen as part of the process that we've been

working through for quite some time now.

Although of note that I will say other

jurisdictions that have amended their legislation

in this space have taken years as well. So while

this is slower than what I would have hoped, it's

not necessarily slower than what it might have

been anywhere else. And our process is one

that will produce, I think, a better piece of

legislation and one that the territories can

ultimately be proud of. It's going to give us the

ability to say that we have something distinct,

unique, involving those who are traditional

holders of the lands and all levels of

government. So that work is important.

And, again, I do -- I'm asking for that time for

that work to be continued and to be concluded.

We are committed to a process that is thorough

and respectful of the legislative process.

There's again some disagreement as to

whether or not one can go into a discussion of

royalties without sharing the individual royalties

of an individual mine. I'm not sure that we will

ever see eye to eye on this one, the Member

and myself, because there's a lot of work that's

happening right now that. That is the stage that

we're at is to try to be at a place where we can

model mines. And in my view it is not necessary

to model a mine that was built and developed

under an old regime in order to develop whether

or not -- or to decide whether or not a new

regime is actually better or more appropriate for

the circumstances of the North, and therefore

having the individual royalties paid ten years

ago, or five years ago, or three years ago

doesn't necessarily undermine any of the work

to be done modeling a theoretical mine that

would happen under the new regime of the

Northwest Territories or in the current climate or

market of the Northwest Territories mineral

resource industry.

So, again, is this -- is the information

contemplated here, in fact, even necessary?

And, again, arguably, I'd suggest it's not to the

extent that it's of interest to the sector and of

interest to the territory, of interest to legislators,

to Indigenous governments, again, the process

we are in right now is seeking to find a path for

greater transparency and information.

A side example, if you will, we are looking at a

process by which Indigenous governments are

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6493

going to be notified when people are looking to

have mineral resource claims on their

traditional territories or on their modern treaty

land holds. So that is something that we're

already doing in the Northwest Territories that

is different from elsewhere. That sort of process

of what that will look like, the timing, how long

we might need to be able to respond, that has

been worked through with the IGC. Disclosure

of royalties information should go through that

same process. What kinds of information will be

beneficial, what kinds of information will add

meaningfully to the conversation, and what

should be protected so that we have a sector

that feels that this is still a place to invest and

that is respectful of their business decisions.

So I know I'm running low on time, Madam

Chair. It's taking me longer than I expected. I

suppose my last comment here is really I want

to just note -- I want to thank the Member for

raising the issue repeatedly. I do -- I do think it's

important when governments and when

government officials hear something enough, it

does not go away. It doesn't get lost. It's very

difficult in my view to walk away from an issue

that gets this kind of attention. Even if the

current bill does not pass, it would be very

difficult to pretend that the issue wasn't made

deeply clear, deeply abundant, and obviously

some Members may vote for it and some

Members may vote against, but there's clearly

been enough interest in this that I would think

any future government would be remiss to not

take that under consideration as they develop

the final regulations that are yet to come and

that I hope will be coming soon. Thank you,

Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you.

Member for Thebacha.

MS. MARTSELOS: Thank you, Madam Chair.

I will not be supporting the bill because I'm very

pro-business. And I know that there has to be

processes in place, and I know that the

Indigenous government should be part of that

process. I very much -- I have a lot of people

who are employed at the mine. We have a large

apprenticeship sector in Fort Smith. And I know

there has to be more transparency and

hopefully after the next election, we will get

through some of these other outstanding

issues, but I'm very much about making sure

that we are open for business and always have

been. I -- I'm happy that our colleague has

named some of these things in his bill, but I just

want to make sure that I've always

been -- you've always known where I stand.

And I'm very -- I can't change what I believe in

because business has been part of my life, and

I know that some of the information -- I don't

think we're going to share all the information

that was given by one of my colleagues that

gave the submission but I know all we wanted

to know is, I guess, just how -- you know, we -- a

lot goes out of the territory. It's concerning

sometimes, especially to Indigenous groups,

and not shared enough with all people in the

territories and mostly anything that's given, it's

usually just if they're given donations or

anything, it's always seems to be the capital.

That's usual. And Peter always reminds me, my

husband, that it is the capital, he says. You

know, so he's on everybody's side here. But I

have to share that with you because we have

this little argument every now and then. But I'm

very pro-business, and I would not have

anybody go -- I wouldn't want everybody to go

through my financial stuff. And at some point,

you know, it's a big investment. When they

come up here to open a mine and the

employment that comes with it and the benefits

to the community and we don't -- where we

don't get IBAs in Fort Smith just because of

where we are. But a lot of our people work there

because we have the college, because we

have the headquarters of the college. Got to

remind that to the Minister of education. And I

just want to make sure that I will not be

supporting this bill. Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

Member for Thebacha. Member for Nunakput.

MR. JACOBSON: Thank you, Madam Chair.

No, just in regards to I respect the Member who

brought this forward. I won't support this in

regard to everything. You know, I -- like, Ms.

Martselos, I am pro-business. I am open for

business. You know it as well as we do, the

Minister said it herself, traditional lands, and

then right now this is for the mines. And, you

know, once I hope our moratorium's lifted and

we're able to start doing our stuff, oil and gas,

and providing jobs and that for our people and

getting healthy again, like, not in a situation

where we're at, I think that we need the federal

government, I guess, to lift that moratorium. It's

the only time I could really say this because the

Minister said it, we're the holders of the

traditional lands as Inuvialuit, and that land

claim was signed in '84, and we have nothing.

The whole territory in regards to our jobs, we've

got no jobs. We're tourism outfitters now. We're

resource rich and cash poor because of that

federal government.

And, but at the end of the day I can't support

this because it's just going to -- it's one thing

going to lead into another and then the next

thing you know, this is going to hold up the

process if something's able to go, you know,

with for offshore. But we're going to do it right.

And I know the Member has a passion for this

and holding people accountable, and he does

Page 6494 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

his job thoroughly and I’ll respect him for that.

But I won't be supporting this just because

it -- yeah, it's going to roll into everything else in

regards to it. And, like, Frieda said, you know,

no business wants people poking into their

books and what they're making and bottom line,

and at the end of the day I won't be supporting

this. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

Member for Nunakput. Member for Monfwi.

MS. WEYALLON ARMSTRONG: Thank you,

Madam Chair. Yes, we have to think about 30

years ago, you know, like, prior to -- prior to

1994, there wasn't too many jobs. Maybe there

was a lot of jobs in Delta but in Tlicho region,

we didn't have a lot of jobs until the mining

company came. That's where -- right now we

have a lot of our people that are employed, or

since the mine opened, we have a lot of our

people are working there. They have employed.

And currently, there's a lot of young people

working, and I know there's a lot of people that

retire, and it really did help a lot of our

members. Not just from my community, from

my regions. It's also helped the Sahtu region. It

also helped the South Slave regions and other

parts of Canada as well too. You know, so. And

I don't -- so with this bill, I think we're making

the mining company to jump through all kinds

of hoops just so that they can -- so we can get

more information from them. I have to think

about my people. I have to think about the

struggles that we are still going through in my

regions, that we need more jobs. Young people

need more jobs. Young people are looking for

jobs.

And a lot of them are going into trades, trades

like welding. There's all kind of trades that the

mining company supports. And so because of

that I don't think I am going to -- I'm not going to

support this bill that's coming -- that's ahead of

us. So I have to think about my people. I have

to think about the regions. It's not just our

regions. There's other regions that rely on the

mining companies, especially in this area, you

know, so there's three mining companies. So

with that in mind, I will not support this. Thank

you.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

Member. Are there any further general

comments? Member for Hay River South.

MR. ROCKY SIMPSON: Thank you, Madam

Chair. Madam Chair, when I look at this bill,

it -- you know, it doesn't really require the -- or

it doesn't require the Minister to share any

information because it says that the Minister

may disclose it, and there's no definitive

requirement.

For me, the economy is very important in the

Northwest Territories even more so now that

we -- you know, with what we've been going

through in these last few years. We need jobs.

We need training. You know, we need -- you

know, we need opportunities for -- you know,

for NGOs to, you know, to provide support as

well to the economy through, you know, maybe

upgrading students and that type of thing as

well. But, you know -- so with this bill, I don't

really see -- like I say, I don't see any teeth in it,

and I don't see it really doing anything. And

except, you know, it'll sit there on the books, like

a lot of the legislation that we actually have and

doesn't really make a difference.

We have a process. Like the Minister said, we

do have a process that's in place right now that

we're going through, and I'd like to let that kind

of roll out on -- you know, and see what comes

of, and the future Assembly, you know, the

Members hopefully will have a say in what

happens there and as well as hopefully, you

know, with Indigenous governments as well

because they've got -- you know, their

participation is paramount in anything we do.

So, yeah, I can't support this bill either just

being, you know, on the side of, you know,

economic development at this point and, you

know -- and the stages that we're in in the

Northwest Territories. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

Member for Hay River South. Are there any

further general comments? Seeing none.

Committee, can we proceed -- oh sorry,

Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

MR. EDJERICON: Thank you, Madam Chair.

Speaking to the bill, I also too won't be

supporting the bill. You know, as it is already we

have a regulatory process that we all have to go

through when the mining industry comes up

here. I know for sure in my community, N'dilo

and the community of Lutselk'e and Fort

Resolution, we do benefit from the mining

industry from employment to IBAs. Some of

these IBAs were just paid out to help put out

from this evacuation that just happened and,

you know, it's a concern that we're -- that we're

doing that but at the end of the day, there's got

to be a different way to do this, and right now

as it is, I know -- back in the early days, like my

colleague has said, that back in 1991 we had

no -- we had high unemployment in our

community. We went from, what, 85 percent in

Dettah, N'dilo to when BHP first got here, and

we maximized the benefits of the mining

industry, and it created a lot of jobs for us,

apprenticeship training, etcetera. And all four

communities throughout the NWT that

maximized the benefits in mining but now to

have mining industry to go through hurdles, and

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6495

we're just going to chase away mining industry

now and for what reason? You know, I think it's

important that we really take a look at this whole

thing again. But for today, I can't support this

bill. I mean, I -- right now, the mining companies

like BMP, Diavik, De Beers, they're all on the

downturn now. They're going to look at

reclaiming etcetera. And we need jobs. The

young people need jobs, you know, and by

putting more barriers in place by this

government, it's just going to chase these guys

away, you know, and we don't want to do that.

So I think that we should really take a look at

this and for now, Madam Chair, I won't be

supporting this bill. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Are there any

further general comments? Seeing none, does

committee wish to proceed to a clause by

clause review of the bill? Can I see a show of

hands, because I need a majority. All right. All

those in favour of going to a clause-by-clause,

raise your hand, show of hands for me.

Opposed to going to clause-by-clause, show of

hands for me. All right. So committee does not

agree to a clause-by-clause review of the bill.

Does committee agree that it has concluded

consideration of Bill 29?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

committee. We have concluded consideration

of Bill 29. Thank you to the sponsor of the bill

and to the witness. Sergeant-at-arms, please

escort the witness from the Chamber.

Committee, we will now continue with Bill 77.

Committee, we've agreed to consider Bill 77,

Nursing Profession Act. I will ask the Minister of

Health and Social Services to introduce the bill.

HON. JULIE GREEN: Thank you, Madam

Chair. I am pleased to be here today to discuss

Bill 77, the Nursing Profession Act. The

development of this bill has been the result of

significant time and effort by the Department of

Health and Social Services and would not have

been possible without input and contributions

from the Registered Nurses Association of the

Northwest Territories and Nunavut.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank

Members of the Standing Committee on Social

Development for the time they have taken to

ensure this bill received comprehensive review.

I also wish to acknowledge the time and effort

members of the public took to develop

submissions.

Madam Chair, the primary purpose of Bill 77 is

to repeal the current Nursing Profession Act

and replace it with a new act that will establish

a single regulatory framework for all nurses in

the Northwest Territories. The bill proposes to

repeal the Licensed Practical Nurses Act and

transfer authority to regulate licensed practical

nurses from the Department of Health and

Social Services to the Registered Nurses

Association of the Northwest Territories and

Nunavut. The new bill will establish new nursing

designations, scopes of practice, and registers,

as well as associated requirements for licensed

practical nurses as registered nurse authorized

prescribers, registered psychiatric nurses, and

registered psychiatric nurse authorized

prescribers, registered nurses and nurse

practitioners will all continue to be regulated

under this Act. The bill further proposes a

modernized process for the review of conduct

of members. I would be pleased to answer any

questions the Members here may have.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

Minister. Would you like to bring witnesses into

the Chamber?

HON. JULIE GREEN: Yes, please, Madam

Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler):

Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses

into the Chamber. Minister, would you please

introduce your witnesses.

HON. JULIE GREEN: Thank you, Madam

Chair. On my left is Jessica Maguire, the

assistant director of policy legislation and

intergovernmental relations. And on my right is

Ian Rennie from the legislative division of the

Department of Justice.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Welcome. I

will now turn to the chair of the Standing

Committee on Social Development, the

committee that reviewed the bill, for any

opening comments on Bill 77. Member for Kam

Lake.

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, Bill

77, Nursing Profession Act, received second

reading in the Legislative Assembly on March

28th, 2023, and was referred to the Standing

Committee on Social Development for review.

The standing committee held a public hearing

with the Minister of Health and Social Services

in Yellowknife on May 10th, 2023.

Through public engagement, stakeholder

submissions were received from the Registered

Nurses Association of the Northwest Territories

and Nunavut, the Canadian Nurses Protective

Society, and a practicing NWT registered

nurse. Committee expressed concern to the

department about the need for continual

training to ensure culturally safe care.

Page 6496 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

Committee also raised further issues for

consideration. Committee was concerned

about the complaint process, that nurses

should be provided notice of the right to receive

a copy of the full complaint made against them

and also the appeal mechanism for

respondents ordered to pay costs specifically

where the board of inquiry dismisses the

complaint, and committee provided clarity and

language on the topic of insurance and

protection. These concerns and a French

translation correction were addressed through

six motions at the clause-by-clause review held

on May 31st, 2023. The Minister concurred with

all motions.

I would like to thank the public for their time to

meet with committee and for committee's work

on the review of this bill. Individual Members

may have additional comments or questions.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you. I

will now open the floor to general comments on

Bill 77. Does committee agree that there's no

general comments on Bill 77?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Can we

proceed to a clause-by-clause review of the

bill?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Committee,

we will defer the bill number and title until after

consideration of the clauses. Please turn to

page 16 of the bill.

Clauses 1 through 10, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clauses 11

through 20, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clauses 21

to 30, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clauses 31

to 40, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clauses 41

to 50, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clauses 51

to 55, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clause 56?

Minister Green.

HON. JULIE GREEN: Thank you, Madam

Chair. Madam Chair, I would like to make a

motion to change --

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): -- sorry,

Minister. In order to make the motion, you're

going to have to return to your seat.

HON. JULIE GREEN: Madam Chair, I'm

just -- I'll just wait for the motion to be

distributed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Minister

Green.

COMMITTEE MOTION 468-19(2):

BILL 77, NURSING PROFESSION ACT,

AMEND SUBCLAUSE 56(1),

CARRIED

HON. JULIE GREEN: Thank you. I move that

the French version of Bill 77 be amended by

striking out "par ecrit" in subclause 56(1) and

substituting "en conformite avec les reglements

administratifs." Thank you, Madam Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): The motion

is in order. To the motion?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question.

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been called. All

those in favour? All those opposed?

Abstentions? The motion is carried. Clause 56

is amended. Does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you.

---Carried.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clause 57 to

60, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clause 61 to

70, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clause 71 to

80, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clause 81 to

90, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6497

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clause 91 to

100, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clause 101

to 110, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clause 110

to 121, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clause 121

to 125, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Committee,

to a bill as a whole, does committee agree that

Bill 77, Nursing Profession Act, is now ready for

third reading?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

committee. Does committee agree that this

conclude our consideration of Bill 77, the

Nursing Profession Act?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you.

And thank you, Minister, and thank you to your

witnesses. Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the

witnesses from the Chamber.

Committee has agreed to consider Bill 82,

Legal Professions Act. I will ask the Minister of

Justice to introduce the bill.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Madam Chair, thank

you. I am pleased to be here today to present

Bill 82, Legal Profession Act.

Bill 82 proposes a repeal and replacement of

the current Legal Profession Act, which was

passed in 1976 and establishes the Law

Society of the Northwest Territories as the body

which regulates lawyers in the Northwest

Territories. The department has worked in

collaboration with the law society to bring

forward these amendments and appreciates

the time and effort contributed by law society

membership both with their initial review of the

existing act and with reviewing an engagement

draft of the bill. This helped to ensure we were

able to bring forward a fulsome new Act that will

effectively regulate lawyers in the Northwest

Territories.

In 2018, a revision committee was established

by the executive of the Law Society of the

Northwest Territories to consult on the

recommended changes to the Act which had

not been extensively reviewed since it was first

enacted. The Act as currently written is

prescriptive with many issues governed by the

Act rather than the rules of the law society.

Similar legislation in comparable jurisdictions is

often less prescriptive allowing for greater

flexibility in the rules and policies of their law

societies. The proposed new Act would

address contemporary developments in the

legal profession in a manner similar to other

Canadian jurisdictions.

In addition to addressing errors in consistencies

and improving the overall clarity of the Act,

proposed changes to the Act generally address

the following areas: The purpose and

administration of the society, membership, and

enrolment; the definition of practice of law;

discipline; the assurance fund; trust accounts

and custodianship; and, other relevant matters.

This concludes my opening remarks. I'd be

pleased to answer questions that Members

may have. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

Minister. Would you like to bring witnesses into

the Chamber?

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: I would.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you.

Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses

into the Chamber. Minister, would you please

introduce your witnesses.

HON. R.J. SIMPSON: Thank you. To my right,

I have Mr. Ian Rennie, legislative counsel with

the Department of Justice, and on my left is Mr.

Brad Patzer, assistant deputy minister Solicitor

General.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): I will now

turn the floor -- or to the chair of the -- sorry, I

will now turn to the chair of social development,

the committee that reviewed the bill, for any

opening comments on Bill 82. Member for Kam

Lake.

MS. CLEVELAND: Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, Bill 82, Legal Profession Act,

received second reading in the Legislative

Assembly on March 30th, 2023, and was

referred to the Standing Committee on Social

Development for review. The standing

committee held a public hearing with the

Minister of Justice in Yellowknife on May 10th,

2023. Through public engagement committee

received submissions from the Law Society of

the Northwest Territories, a private resident, the

NWT Metis Nation, and Deline Gotine

Government.

Page 6498 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023

Committee was concerned around the topics

of: Access to justice, cultural safety training,

public access to legal materials, regulating

paralegals, and pro bono legal services.

Committee was ultimately satisfied, however,

that the submissions provided from

stakeholders adequately addressed these

concerns. As such, committee did not forward

any motions to amend the bill.

Standing committee held the clause-by-clause

review of Bill 82 on May 31st, 2023. I would like

to thank the public for their time to meet with

committee and for committee's work on the

review of this bill.

Individual Members may have additional

comments or questions. Thank you, Madam

Chair.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

Member for Kam Lake. I will now open the floor

to general comments on Bill 82. Are there any

general comments? Seeing none, does

committee agree that there are no general

comments?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Can we

proceed to a clause-by-clause review of the

bill?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Committee,

we will defer the bill number and title until after

consideration of the clauses. We will consider

the clauses in groups. Please turn to page 1 of

the bill.

Clauses 1 through 10, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clauses 11

through 20, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clauses 21

to 30, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clauses 31

to 40, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clauses 41

to 50, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clauses 51

to 60, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clauses 61

to 70, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Clauses 71

to 77, does committee agree?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Committee,

to the bill as a whole, does committee agree

that Bill 82, Legal Profession Act, is now ready

for third reading?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

committee. Committee has agreed that Bill 82,

Legal Profession Act, is now ready for third

reading. Does committee agree that this

concludes our consideration of Bill 82, Legal

Profession Act?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): Thank you,

Minister, and thank you to your witnesses.

Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses

from the Chamber.

Member for Frame Lake.

MR. O'REILLY: Merci, Madam la Presidente. I

move that the chair rise and report progress.

CHAIRPERSON (Ms. Semmler): There's a

motion on the floor to report progress. The

motion is in order and non-debatable. All those

in favour? All those opposed? The motion is

carried. I will now rise and report progress.

---Carried

MR. SPEAKER: May I please have the report

of Committee of the Whole. Member for Inuvik

Twin Lakes.

Report of Committee of the Whole

MS. SEMMLER: Mr. Speaker, your committee

has been considering Bill 29, Bill 77, and Bill 82,

and I would like to report progress with one

motion carried that Bill 29 is concluded and that

Bill 82 is ready for third reading and that Bill 77

is ready for third reading as amended. And, Mr.

Speaker, I move that the report of the

Committee of the Whole be concurred with.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Member for Inuvik

Twin Lakes. Do we have a seconder? Member

for Yellowknife Centre. All those in favour? All

those opposed? The motion is carried.

September 27, 2023 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 6499

---Carried

Third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the

day.

Orders of the Day

CLERK OF THE HOUSE (Mr. Glen Rutland):

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Orders of the day for

Thursday, September 28th, 1:30 p.m.

1. Prayer

2. Ministers’ Statements

3. Members’ Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

- Oral Question 1548-19(2), Indian Day

Schools

- Oral Question 1578-19(2), Fire

Management Policy Effect on

Indigenous Culture

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Acknowledgements

7. Oral Questions

8. Written Questions

9. Returns to Written Questions

10. Replies to the Commissioner’s Address

11. Petitions

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of

Bills

13. Reports of Standing and Special

Committees

14. Tabling of Documents

15. Notices of Motion

16. Motions

17. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

18. First Reading of Bills

19. Second Reading of Bills

- Bill 64, An Act to Amend the Legislative

Assembly and Executive Council Act,

No. 3

20. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of

Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 23, An Act to Amend the Public

Utilities Act

- Committee Report 52-19(2), Standing

Committee on Rules and Procedures

Report on the Review of the Rules of the

Northwest Territories Legislative

Assembly

- Committee Report 53-19(2), Standing

Committee on Economic Development

and Environment Report on Supporting

Northern Businesses

- Minster’s Statement 264-19(2),

Response to the NWT Chief Coroner’s

Report on Suicide

- Tabled Document 681-19(2),

Government of the Northwest Territories

Response to Committee Report 26-

19(2): Report on the Child and Family

Services Act – Lifting Children, Youth

and Families: An All of Territory

Approach to Keeping Families Together

- Tabled Document 973-19(2), 2024-

2025 Capital Estimates

- Tabled Document 974-19(2),

Supplementary Estimates Operations

Expenditures, No. 3, 2023-2024

21. Report of Committee of the Whole

22. Third Reading of Bills

- Bill 77, Nursing Profession Act

- Bill 82, Legal Profession Act

23. Orders of the Day

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This

House stands adjourned until Thursday,

September 28th, 2023, at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 7:45 p.m.

Page 6500 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD September 27, 2023